Coming to Terms

I’ve been with my MM for quite a few years now, so I’ve gone through all of the ups, downs and in-betweens of this relationship.  I started off not knowing that this great guy that I had known for years and just became re-acquainted with was married.  When I found out, we were one year into this and sometimes, I ask myself how I didn’t realize something was up.   But, hind-sight is 20/20.

Even when I saw the evidence (his mom’s obituary), I still couldn’t really believe it because it was from a couple of years earlier, so anything could have happened in that time.  The one thing I did was start looking for signs:  female items left in his car (none), longer hair stuck to the passenger seat (never), him using the term “we need to get <whatever> for the house” when I knew he didn’t mean “we” as in him and me (not once).  I let it go because I figured that if there was something he needed to tell me, he would.  After all, we talked about (just about) everything.

When the truth finally came out, I was livid!  His wife had called me, but not to confront me for being the other woman.  It was to explain why people were in my yard taking pictures of one of his cars.  She said she wanted to “surprise” him by having the car restored, but she didn’t sound like a happy wife trying to surprise her husband.   Still, he was married, so whatever it was we had was over.  At least, that’s what I told myself.

He came over that night and I broke it off.   He asked for a chance to explain, and I gave it to him.  He didn’t give me any of the cliche excuses like “My wife doesn’t understand me” or “I love her but I’m not IN love with her”.   He didn’t even tell me he loved ME at that point.  How could he?  He knew he was married and didn’t want to tell me he loved me knowing that I probably would have laughed in his face!

I’ve been through ups and downs with my feelings.  One day feeling like I couldn’t take another night when he left me to go home to his wife.  The next day, knowing that I could count on him to be there for me if I needed him.  I used to feel guilty, but that stopped when I realized that his wife never so much as stopped by to see him when he was working in the garage.  She knew where he was and it was only a few minutes away.  She never made the effort.  She never even called to ask if he needed anything.

I don’t know my man’s wife.  I never did.  One thing I do know is that she is NOT a bad person as some think I believe.  If she was a bad person, my guy would never have fallen in love with her and married her.  What happened was that she stopped loving him.  Many people don’t understand this, but it happens.  I do know that he tried to make things work.  I tried to get him to make things work before I became so emotionally invested in him that my heart would break into a zillion pieces.  She didn’t want things to work.  That’s it.  She just stopped caring.

I have asked myself over and over what HE did to make her stop caring.  I’ve asked him what he did.  He claims to have no idea.  All he knows is that she blamed menopause.  Unfortunately, I know women who use that as an excuse to stop having sex, but she took it to the extreme and didn’t even want to be touched.  I always thought that women who play the menopause card are the ones who really don’t enjoy sex and welcome menopause as an excuse to stop.  Personally, if I had a husband who was younger than me and I lost interest in sex, I would be doing anything I could to try to get that interest back.  Not that sex is THE most important thing, but a big chunk is missing without any intimacy.

It took me a long time to realize that what we have is better than a lot of marriages out there.  We’re friends first, then lovers.  I have my own space and time to do what I want.  He has to do what he feels is right for his daughter and I accept that.  I’m asked how I came to terms with this relationship.  Well, I came to terms by living my own life.  Sure, we have interests together, but I have my own interests that keep me busy.  As the years go by, I realize that this relationship is good for both of us.  We are together more than many married people.  We talk more than most couples (thanks to his commute to and from work calls to me).  When we’re together, we’re a REAL couple in a REAL relationship.  I know, I know….there are some who will disagree and say I’m “settling”.  I’m not settling…I’m happy.  I don’t need to be his wife.  I don’t need to be a mother to his daughter.  I just need to be the one he loves who loves him back.

Right now, I’m going through a time when I want to get out of the north!  He wants me to move closer to him, but I told him that there is no way I will be living in some out of the way area alone.  If he wants me to stay up north, he will have to make a move to be with me.  If he can’t do that, then I am going south.  I have some time to decide what I want to do, but when I’m in a position to move, he will have his option.  In the meantime, I’m looking at real estate down south.  I’ve shown him several of the houses and condos I’m looking at, so he knows this is a very real option for me.  I’m not going to push.  As always, he needs to decide what to do for him.  Whatever happens with this, I’ll come to terms with that too.

 

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91 thoughts on “Coming to Terms

  1. It seems that you have always lived your own life, and he has fit into it nicely up to this point. By continuing to live your life and make the decisions that are right for you, you will continue to be happy with your life, even if he chooses to stay up north.

    But, maybe this will be a transition to something that is just as good, but different. My MM and I lived in the same area for two years. He was living away from his wife because of his job, and she refused to move. So, he went home (2000 miles away) every few months, and for holidays, but for the rest of the time we behaved as a normal couple, though we did maintain separate households. I also lived my life and he lived his, and we built a life together in addition to our individual lives. We developed friends, we built memories, we fell deeply in love.

    I have never asked him to leave his wife. He has told me he stays out of a sense of duty, and after more than 30 years of marriage I think it’s also out of a sense of stability and comfort. Yet, I know he does not love her the way he loves me. I have seen that clearly. I also don’t think she’s a bad person, and neither does he. But, she doesn’t like to touch him, doesn’t have sex with him, and doesn’t trust him, even about things other than relationship issues. On the other hand, our relationship is based on mutual trust, honesty, and openness, and it is the best thing either of us have experienced.

    So, when the work situation changed, and he moved back home, we had to decide what to do about our relationship. Though we talked about ending it, neither of us could do that, so now we see each other for a few days a month, and we talk just about every day. Though different than what we had before, this is just as good. The distance has not made us love each other any less. The time we spend together is wonderful and even more precious to us now, and we are both still very happy. I still have my life. He still has his. And we still have ours — it just looks a bit different than it had. We are approaching three years of this – two together almost full-time, and one separated by 2000 miles. But, it’s still worth it.

    So — as you consider this potential change, my advice is to make your decision. The two of you will find a way to make it work if it can. But, if you put your life on hold for him, knowing that he is not really planning to leave his marriage, you will be less happy than if you live your life and find a way to fit him in again if he can.

    It seems strange to offer advice to you, though. I have followed your blog for about a year now, and have been so grateful to hear about others who choose to stay in this type of relationship. I even told my MM about it and he has read this as well. He was encouraged by the fact that there are relationships that seem durable, even though they are unconventional. It’s nice to know we are not alone in this type of journey.

    Keep us posted on the decision process!

    • Hi, Happy OW!

      Any move I make will be at least a year down the road, but I’m keeping my options open. The more I think South and warmth, the more I’m liking it!!!! LOL!

      Long distance relationships can work and you are showing us all that. I’ve never held out for “maybe he’ll divorce his wife” because I don’t think that will happen and I have to continue to believe that. If I give myself false hope, I’ll go crazy! Actually, the longer this relationship goes on, I find that I’m really happy in my own space. If he were to move in with me, I would need my own space within that home.

      I started this blog as a way for other OW to know they are not alone and to tell my story. I don’t think I encourage others NOT in this situation already to run out and find a MM to have an affair with, but, others disagree as seen in some comments. We are not home-wrecking whores; we didn’t look for this type of relationship. There are times when this is the best solution for all involved.

      Thank you for letting me see that long distance can and will work!

    • It sounds like he really loves his wife but he was lonely and thorny when he met you. It is easy to see why she does not trust him and I would suggest that you should not trust him. You know he is someone who tells lies and breaks promises. And I agree with you – he does not love you the same way he loves her. What he feels for you is more about sex and a new realtionship, but the long term love they have is a deeper thing. If you want to ever have that kind of love you need to find an available trustworthy guy.

  2. I wish I could relay to you how refreshing it was to read your story. I needed this. I have sat on many occasions, wondering if I were the only person in the world who deals with this situation. I realize that there are many women out here that have been in these types of relationships. But no one is talking about them. Because it’s taboo or whatever label someone wants to put on it. In the beginning, my mental health took several huge blows. I would go to bed almost every night thinking I couldn’t handle the cards I’d been dealt and that my only option was to end things. Then wake up every morning loving him just the same, if not more. It was and still is a vicious circle. My guy was basically abandoned (by his wife) for a better job on the opposite coast. He has a son and refused to go with her. Rightfully so too. He moved on and met me. We began dating like any normal couple. We became very close and developed a bond that to this day is unbreakable. Unfortunately, the great job out west wasn’t all she’d hoped for and she returned. He never kept anything from me. The house is in both their names and she has every right to stay there. At first she kept her distance, then he and I realized that she thought she could come back and pick things up with him like nothing ever happened. That’s when life got difficult for us both. He quickly informed her that she had walked out on their marriage and he moved on. After many battles, she accepted that. So as it stands, they are living in the same house (and maintaining separate lives). He isn’t rubbing our relationship in her face. He doesn’t want to lose his home, nor does she. They both worked very hard to obtain it. I can understand that. I used to get raging jealous thinking that he was hiding something from me. I convinced myself that he was just telling me they didn’t speak, but what he was really doing is going home every night and telling her how much he loved her. I questioned him relentlessly trying to find anything to prove that my suspicions were right. Every time, I was relieved that I was wrong. He was very patient and understanding with me. Sure he got upset at times, but I would too if someone constantly questioned me. Eventually, we learned to talk things through when they bother us. We don’t hold it in. It’s much easier to get it out quickly so it doesn’t build up and explode. As of right now, things are great. Like you said, we spend time together more than normal couples do. We go to dinner, movies, just go for drives. It’s a happy balance. Everyone comments on how happy we look when we are together. After 3 years, I’d say we are doing something right. Because I still get excited like a teenager when I know we get to spend time together. Isn’t THAT what a good relationship should be like? I have no idea what our future holds. I’m not worried about that though. Right now. In this moment, I’m happy, healthy, and content with my life.

    I want you to know that I appreciate your honesty and allowing the public to see that this isn’t always a bad thing. And that we are not alone. YOU are not alone. Know that. Thank you so much!

    • Hi, Cass!

      I knew there had to be others in my situation who had no one to talk to about it. That was the main reason I started this blog. I’m glad I can give a voice to all of us who find ourselves in the same boat.

      Even after all my posts about not every man cheats for the same reasons, we all seem to get lumped into the cookie cutter “home-wrecker” mold. I get tired of saying that’s not the truth. Thank you for telling your story.

  3. Hi,
    For those of you who don’t know me I am an avid admirer and follower of this blog because I think that it creates a safe space for all women to discuss a very real and controversial subject.

    I am not a married woman, nor am I having an affair with a married man. I found this blog while I was doing research for my novel (it has the POV of both the married woman and the other woman) and it is a major source of inspiration for me. So, thank you to J, Bella Scelta and, obviously, to the OW.

    I hope that I am not asking too much of the OW (and all of you readers) to answer a few of my questions for research purposes (if I am, please say so, I am a big girl and I can ‘take it’, lol). I’ve asked my girlfriends and readers, but I have a feeling I’m going to get some GREAT answers from you guys.

    A. TO THE MARRIED WOMEN OUT THERE
    - What would you do if you were confronted with your husband’s mistress? In this purely hypothetical scenario, the other woman would be in love with your husband (and you still are too) and she only found out about the affair after she was already head over heels in love with him. You also have two kids still living at home, but you do NOT depend on him financially.
    - Have you forgiven your married men for having an affair? If so, how did you rebuild trust? What made you forgive him?
    - Please assume that your husband is having more than one affair at once. Would this make you feel better (because there is no ONE other woman) or worst? In what ways?

    B. TO THE OTHER WOMEN OUT THERE:
    - Please assume that you are the other woman, but that your guy makes it clear that he doesn’t sleep with his wife anymore. If you discovered that this wasn’t true, would you still be with him or would that be a deal breaker? Why?
    - What if you discovered that he had another affair before you? Would that make you suspicious of him or would it simply reinforce the premise that his marriage hasn’t been doing too well for a while? And what if he was having ANOTHER affair (in addition to the one that you are participating in)?
    - Bella Scelta, you once told me that you encourage your MM to sleep with him wife. May I ask why? What sort of benefits does it bring to you? Is it simply because you love him and you want to see him happy?
    - If you were confronted by your MM’s wife and you were truly convinced that she still loves him (regardless of whatever evidence you were exposed to in the past), would you back off and let her have him? Why or why not?

    ***

    Before I sign off, I want to address something that I’ve heard from the OW (and also from fellow followers of this blog) and that I find to be very interesting. She has mentioned, time and time again, that not all OW are “home wreckers” that go around chasing married men.

    While I’ve never had an affair with a married man, I’d like to come out and say that I strongly agree with her comment. Yes, I’m sure that there are SOME women who will avidly seek a married guy (for whatever reasons, emotional issues, mean streak etc.), but in my opinion, these women represent a MINORITY. And here’s why: given the choice between (a) a stable, faithful and official relationship or (b) being someone’s OW, I strongly believe that the vast majority of women would choose A. So why would they go around chasing married men out of the blue? Clearly, they’ve found themselves in love with these guys who, among other things, are married. And it obviously sucks! The writer of this blog (the OW) seems to have an atypical affair (she knows his family, they go out in public, see each other all the time etc.) and even she has mentioned that, while she does not count on it, she would like her MM to leave his marriage and be only with her (provided that such an act would not hurt his daughter). (Am I right in this, OW? I hope so).

    My point is this: no one actively chooses to be different or to have a harder life. And yes, there are exceptions. I’m using “no one” loosely, meaning “most people”. It’s no different than, for instance, being gay. It’s not a choice. Very few people would choose to have a different sexuality that the accepted norm, especially until the recent past, before gay rights had made any progress (please let me be clear here and say that, personally, I am totally FOR such progress).

    So before you label someone as a “home wrecker”, remember that the OW simply met your MM after you did. Maybe if she had met him before, YOU would be the OW and she would be the wife. Again, I’m not saying that this makes it OK to cheat. Of course not. I hope that if I ever do get married, both myself and my spouse remain faithful to each other (I assume that that’s what most people want as well), but I’ve found that it’s best to adopt the “never say never” thought process. Because NO ONE is free from life’s surprises. It could happen to anyone. The OW has made it clear that she didn’t even KNOW that he was married for a good while. Yes, I get that many of you think that she should have found the strength to leave him after she did find out. But what makes you think that YOU would have this strength? And even if you did, does that make it ok for you to determine that she needs to have it too? Furthermore, what if it also takes strength (albeit a different kind) to stay in this relationship? Who are we to judge someone else’s life? His wife has a say. His daughter has a say. She (the OW) has a say. But we really don’t (again, just my opinion).

    On a final note, I’d like to say that the same goes for the wives. Not all wives are frigid, selfish women who will use their kids against their husbands in a divorce. Not all wives have stopped caring for their husbands and lost interest (sexual and otherwise) in them. It would be equally prejudiced to label all wives as it would be to label all mistresses.

    All the best!
    Gio

    P.S. Is ‘mistress’ a frowned upon term? Is there a preferred term such as ‘other woman’ or something else? I just realized that I could be offending some of you and I don’t want that.

    • Hi, Gio!

      Your comment is posted, so if anyone would like to answer your questions, they are free to do so. Once your book is finished and published, please let me know the title and where I can find it. I think it would be an interesting read.

      Now…let me try to answer this:

      B. TO THE OTHER WOMEN OUT THERE:
      - Please assume that you are the other woman, but that your guy makes it clear that he doesn’t sleep with his wife anymore. If you discovered that this wasn’t true, would you still be with him or would that be a deal breaker? Why?
      - What if you discovered that he had another affair before you? Would that make you suspicious of him or would it simply reinforce the premise that his marriage hasn’t been doing too well for a while? And what if he was having ANOTHER affair (in addition to the one that you are participating in)?
      - Bella Scelta, you once told me that you encourage your MM to sleep with him wife. May I ask why? What sort of benefits does it bring to you? Is it simply because you love him and you want to see him happy?
      - If you were confronted by your MM’s wife and you were truly convinced that she still loves him (regardless of whatever evidence you were exposed to in the past), would you back off and let her have him? Why or why not?

      1. If I found out that my guy was sleeping with his wife, it would definitely be a deal-breaker for me. That would mean that for 10 years, I have trusted a man that had constantly lied to me about his marriage and his wife. If a woman is still sleeping/having sex with her husband, I would think that that means she wants things to work in the marriage and I would not want to stand in the way of letting things work out. Also, if I was seriously dating a SINGLE man, thinking I was the only one, then found that HE was sleeping with others, that, too would be a deal-breaker. This may sound strange coming from the other woman, but I believe in monogamy. I’m with my man because he was emotionally abandoned. In the beginning, if I thought there was any chance of things working out in the marriage, I would have stepped aside, no matter how hard that would have been.

      2. If I found out that my guy had affairs before me, I would think much less of him. That would also mean that he had been lying to me for years. If I found that he had OTHER other women, he would be history to me. Again, it’s that monogamy thing. I wouldn’t put up with it from a single man, why would I put up with it from a man who is married, yet in a sexless marriage?

      3. I know this was directed to Bella, but I’d like to answer since I was in a similar situation. When I found out that my guy was, in fact, married, before I would even consider continuing with our relationship, I told him that I wanted him to try to make things work in his marriage. He told me that a few years previously, right after the child was born, he bought his wife lingerie that she never wore. She told him that she would wear it for him “as soon as you buy me a house”. They had been in their house for quite a few months and I told him to do what he had to do to give his marriage a go. He laid out the lingerie one night when his wife was in the shower, then went downstairs to wait for her to get out of the shower and dress in the lingerie. When he went up to her room, she had put the lingerie away and was in flannel jammies. She told him to never bring that up again.

      I even encouraged him to be more “playful” at home like he is with me to see if his wife wanted things to work. If he went to kiss her, or hug her, she would tell him “Not in front of the baby”.

      I tried to get him to make his marriage work first because it was the right thing to do. I was not about to be one of those women who was called only on the nights the wife wouldn’t put out. My benefit would have been that I would be able to move on knowing that this guy and his wife really wanted the marriage to work.

      4. If my guy’s wife were to call me today and tell me that she really loved her husband and wanted to make him happy and treat him the way he deserved to be treated, then yes, I would back off. However, I would discuss it with my guy. After this long, it wouldn’t be fair to him or me to NOT have this conversation with him and I would explain this to his wife so it was not done behind her back. I would tell him exactly what his wife said and ask him to go home and talk to her about it to see if the marriage could work, or if it was too late. It would hurt, but, again, I’d have closure and would be able to move on. He would no longer be considered in any decisions that I would make in my life (like if, when and where I would move to).

      One last thing: About that “mistress” label….ick! When I think “mistress” I get the dominatrix/black leather bustier image in my head. Somehow, I don’t think over-sized “Hello Kitty boxers” when I think “mistress”. Mistress isn’t offensive to me at all…I guess I don’t think I’m sexy enough to be a mistress!! LOL!!!

      • Other Woman,

        I stand by my conclusion that women who date married men are, at their core, lonely with a weak moral compass. This website of yours confirms that conclusion over and over again.

        Your discussion of your own adulterous relationship seems incredibly superficial and shallow with even a cursory view of the facts as you display them.

        1) You claim that it is your deep love for this man that keeps the relationship going. You state that you two were friends before he met his wife but that the “time” was not right for the relationship. In another post, you ‘claim’ that you did not know he was married with a child because that was a small “omission of truth” on his part. OMG!! Where do I start? If you were truly friends, how in the world could you not know he got married and had a child? What changed about the timing that made it ok now but not then? My guess is that back then, you had another love interest and didnt have time for him. Once you got divorced and lonely, the now MM started looking good.

        2) You have put yourself in a permanent state of second class citizenship and you allow yourself to be duped to fuel the ideology of the Romeo-Juliet romance. If he leaves your bed as you say to go to his wife, he is not sleeping in the garage, or on the floor, or on the couch. He is getting in bed with HIS WIFE. If it soothes your soul to believe otherwise, well…believe that. Monogomy is not a deal breaker for you….your 12 years prove that it is not. Are they having intercourse? Only those two know for sure. How much intimacy would he have to admit to for you to be upset enough to break it off? Kissing, hugging, is that enough?

        3) According to you, your morality has nothing to do with your relationship with your MM. May I ask when is your morality a part of your life? Someone with a weak moral base changes his/her ideology to fit his/her actions instead of the other way around. There is no spiritual “permission” for your intrusion into their marriage. I also believe that is why you cannot outline what you believe regarding a God. No God says, ” you can be a mistress in a marriage”. So, because of that, you drop out of your relationship with God. I understand why your born-again family members wanted you to seek Christ. They know that if you were filled with the Holy Spirit, you simply could not continue doing what you are doing. Sadly, your MM is your God.

        4) As I said, your MM and his wife, must have enough intimacy in front of their daughter to sustain their marriage. What is harmful is the time away from his family that he spends with you. How does he explain that time away? Don’t be foolishness enough to think that you locating a toy or a laptop makes up for an absentee father. He could skip the material things and spend the hours on the phone with you getting to know his daughter, her friends, helping with homework and correctly teaching her what it means to be a man. You cannot have it both ways. He cannot be a great dad to his daughter and spend time with her AND spend all the time with you as you claim. Which one is it really?

        5) You said you cannot understand why the wife does not trust him. You cannot see where he caused damage and the rift in the marriage. The answer is so obvious, I am not sure why you even need to ask. If there were problems before you got there, you are likely not the first affair. Deceit is the core of the marriage problem. Having you around IS a reason not to trust him. Sounds like you were not the first affair nor do I believe you have been the only person he sees. Maybe there is not another person who wasted 12 years with him while he was married like you, but, his actions say he is more concerned for his comfort and not others. He is a man who doesn’t work out issues. Instead, he puts up barriers to true intimacy by having multiple partners. There is a part of your MM that is not available to you or his wife nor his daughter. And, since he maintains a home with his wife, he is actually closer to his wife. They file taxes, save for retirement, plan vacations together. They live their lives together. By your admission, you cannot trust him to move in with you, stay at your house when you want him to, or give you all that you need. That is selfish. He knows he cannot give you what you need. Why not love you enough to release you to get what you deserve?

        6) Lastly, you seem to think that because people know about your affair, that makes it okay. I know you THINK his family is all on board with you. In my extended family, I have had a married man (an uncle) bring around a woman who was not his wife. We were polite to this other woman, even gracious. But, no one approved of the relationship. Some of your family members don’t really approve and some of his his don’t either. Just because you set aside your spiritual beliefs to date a MM, you should not assume that everyone around you thinks it is okay. When I was a new college graduate and had just got hired, I was one of the youngest women in my company. I worked with a lot of women, most of them older than me, and a few men They were all very nice and it was a good start in my field. One woman and I got particularly chummy. After awhile, she revealed to me that she had been seeing a married man for about three years. I was taken aback and we really didn’t discuss it anymore. She never brought him around me. Because she was open about it, many of the other co-workers knew. Most of them were married and they DID NOT approve. I rose the rank in the company pretty fast and within 3 years, I was in management meetings discussing who would be given assignments, raises, etc. I brought my friend up as a possibility for an outside assignment that would have put more money in her pockets. She was passed over with little discussion. I approached one of the senior women after the meeting to try and personally advocate for my friend. Because this woman mentored me, she gave it to me straight. She said, G____a was not considered a trustworthy employee and that the other women did not feel comfortable working with her. My friend was not a gorgeous man-stealer that the other women feared. She was actually pudgy, only marginally attractive but was a good conversationalist; she was good at her job. But, to flounce such a relationship publically hurt hurt credibility in the work place. When the other women talked about outings with their husbands, she would mention dates with her MM. Eventually, she was given fewer and fewer assignments until she was just part-time. There were some changes in the company economically and others had positions reduced or eliminated as well. But, she was always the first to be cut. She left the position after awhile, stopped dating the MM and found her own husband. You seem to think that because people know what you are doing that makes it okay. Again, just my experience, but most people don’t approve. Most people don’t buy into the, “we just fell madly in love” scenario. I must say that with adult women, such talk looks juvenile, seems like junior high school behavior and borders on silly. It is hard to take those women seriously in other areas of their lives. Again, I point out Rielle Hunter, Gennifer Flowers, Monica Lewinsky, etc. What about that astronaut Lisa Nowak, who drove across country in a diaper to confront her romantic rival? In the end, all three astronauts got fired once the love triangle became public knowledge. And, Lisa was married to someone else!~!

        So, I will end where I began. The lonely other woman justifies all kind of craziness in the name of love, abandons her morality and makes the MM her God and the center of her world. The saddest part is that the married man can stop the affair and proceed in life fairly unscathed after he does repair work to his relationships and reputation. The OW rarely gets off that easy. Her reputation and image take a long and low blow that is hard to shake. Repair work is not as simple for her and finding a new relationship IS more difficult. OW do you stay because it would be hard to find a new man to accept what you did for so long? Are you impacted at work by being a mistress? Do your co-workers know?

        Again, I appeal to any married woman, seeking to understand the spiritual battle for their marriage to Google Rejoice Marriage Ministries. Any OW who wants to understand that they can get away from their MM successfully can also check out that website. It is unnecessary to live a life dominated by sin when God has something so much better for you all. God Bless!!

        • I seriously don’t even know why I continue to give you space here. You obviously have your own agenda that you follow, even if it means ignoring things that have been said either in past comments or past posts. You also continue to bring your religious views into a subject that has nothing to do with religion or lack thereof.

          We all get it…you don’t believe that there is EVER a reason to date a married man/woman. Really. We get it. You’ve stated that over and over and over and over and over again. Enough already. I’ve seen your type before; I have relatives who are of the self-righteous, born again, closed-minded beings exactly like you. I pity you if you ever find yourself in a position that at one point in your life you found “immoral” or “unacceptable”. I pity any child of yours who may at some point in his or her life come into a lifestyle that you don’t agree with. But then, maybe you will spend days, or months, or years praying over that situation in the hope of “curing” said child.

          You so want to be “right” in your assessment of ALL other women that you fail to see that not everyone in this world lives in your “perfect” world. Marriages end, but for reasons that you would never understand, the couple decides to live together, but apart. One or both parties may find others who complete their lives. It’s the way things are.

          Now, let me answer your little check-list:

          1) You claim that it is your deep love for this man that keeps the relationship going. You state that you two were friends before he met his wife but that the “time” was not right for the relationship. In another post, you ‘claim’ that you did not know he was married with a child because that was a small “omission of truth” on his part. OMG!! Where do I start? If you were truly friends, how in the world could you not know he got married and had a child? What changed about the timing that made it ok now but not then? My guess is that back then, you had another love interest and didn’t have time for him. Once you got divorced and lonely, the now MM started looking good.

          No…I don’t claim that my deep love for this man keeps the relationship going. It is our MUTUAL love, understanding and friendship that keeps us going. Now, if you read all of my posts, would you realize that while my guy and I were friends years ago, we lost touch for a while. He worked for a man who rented garages from me and I saw him daily. We would talk all the time. He would also come around after work with a friend of his who had a little crush on my tenant. We ALL would sit outside on the porch and talk for hours. Before bedtime, my kids would also be outside with us all and these guys would play with them. After I put the kids to bed, I would go back outside and we would all talk until the wee hours. The timing for us then wasn’t right because I am older than him and I had 2 young (under 5) kids. I felt that I needed to put my focus on raising them, rather than on any man. It was MY feeling that he wouldn’t be able to handle the responsibility of kids at that time in his life and I certainly wasn’t willing to jump into a relationship after being divorced.

          His boss’s business grew to where he needed an actual warehouse, so they no longer came to the garage daily. My guy’s friend’s crush on my tenant ended and after a while, we all grew apart. He was busy working several jobs and I was busy raising my kids and working. I did not see him or have contact with anyone who knew him for about 15 years until running into him one day in a neighborhood store where he asked about renting my garages for himself. It was during those years that he married and had a child.

          For the record, when I got divorced, I was never lonely. I’ve always been very independent and solitary where I don’t need constant companionship. I coached soccer during the spring, summer and winter (indoor) for a lot of years. Between that and work, I didn’t have the time to be lonely, though you might not understand that. Perhaps you NEED to be constantly in someone else’s company. I happen to like myself, so I am content being alone. There’s a big difference in being alone and being lonely.

          2) You have put yourself in a permanent state of second class citizenship and you allow yourself to be duped to fuel the ideology of the Romeo-Juliet romance. If he leaves your bed as you say to go to his wife, he is not sleeping in the garage, or on the floor, or on the couch. He is getting in bed with HIS WIFE. If it soothes your soul to believe otherwise, well…believe that. Monogomy is not a deal breaker for you….your 12 years prove that it is not. Are they having intercourse? Only those two know for sure. How much intimacy would he have to admit to for you to be upset enough to break it off? Kissing, hugging, is that enough?

          This is not even worth responding to. You really don’t get that there are some marriages that are OVER even though the couple is in the same house. In your perfect world, do husbands and wives NEVER have separate rooms? In the real world, they do.

          3) According to you, your morality has nothing to do with your relationship with your MM. May I ask when is your morality a part of your life? Someone with a weak moral base changes his/her ideology to fit his/her actions instead of the other way around. There is no spiritual “permission” for your intrusion into their marriage. I also believe that is why you cannot outline what you believe regarding a God. No God says, ” you can be a mistress in a marriage”. So, because of that, you drop out of your relationship with God. I understand why your born-again family members wanted you to seek Christ. They know that if you were filled with the Holy Spirit, you simply could not continue doing what you are doing. Sadly, your MM is your God.

          Again, just because one is not Christian does not make that person immoral. Since you bring religion into this, and say that no god says “You can be a mistress in a marriage”, let me just point out that your Bible has quite a few instances of incest and bigamy in there. But then, you must only read the New Testament. Before that the god of Abraham didn’t mind if his “chosen men” had lovers outside of marriage, had sex with their daughters or were drunkards. Yet, I’m “immoral” according to you. Whatever.

          4) As I said, your MM and his wife, must have enough intimacy in front of their daughter to sustain their marriage. What is harmful is the time away from his family that he spends with you. How does he explain that time away? Don’t be foolishness enough to think that you locating a toy or a laptop makes up for an absentee father. He could skip the material things and spend the hours on the phone with you getting to know his daughter, her friends, helping with homework and correctly teaching her what it means to be a man. You cannot have it both ways. He cannot be a great dad to his daughter and spend time with her AND spend all the time with you as you claim. Which one is it really?

          There you go again, assuming that there is intimacy to “sustain” the marriage. The marriage is DEAD. No intimacy. He is not an absentee father because he is there every night (except Saturdays when he stays here late) to talk to his daughter, help with her homework (when he can) and kiss her good-night. He doesn’t buy her things to make up for anything because she knows that he is there if she needs him. He is also there for her when she calls…he never ignores her calls. A few times during the week, I am with friends and he goes right home after work. Other times during the week, he will stop by my house and we go out to dinner together. He will stay with me for a little while, then will get home early enough to spend time with his daughter. There are also times when he needs to go straight home because there is a parent/teacher conference scheduled, or a school play or concert. He is there for all of that.

          5) You said you cannot understand why the wife does not trust him. You cannot see where he caused damage and the rift in the marriage. The answer is so obvious, I am not sure why you even need to ask. If there were problems before you got there, you are likely not the first affair. Deceit is the core of the marriage problem. Having you around IS a reason not to trust him. Sounds like you were not the first affair nor do I believe you have been the only person he sees. Maybe there is not another person who wasted 12 years with him while he was married like you, but, his actions say he is more concerned for his comfort and not others. He is a man who doesn’t work out issues. Instead, he puts up barriers to true intimacy by having multiple partners. There is a part of your MM that is not available to you or his wife nor his daughter. And, since he maintains a home with his wife, he is actually closer to his wife. They file taxes, save for retirement, plan vacations together. They live their lives together. By your admission, you cannot trust him to move in with you, stay at your house when you want him to, or give you all that you need. That is selfish. He knows he cannot give you what you need. Why not love you enough to release you to get what you deserve?

          Another thing you put your own spin on. His wife is overprotective of the child and doesn’t ALLOW him to take her out alone. That is now changing as he’s finally growing a set and demanding his time to bond with his daughter. His daughter is ALSO growing up enough to demand that she is allowed to be with her dad. There will soon be a time when his daughter will come and work with us on the weekends with or without mom’s blessing.

          I know for certain that I am his one and only instance of straying because he did try to make his marriage work. But, it takes two. You really have no right to talk about someone you don’t know. Again, I need to tell you that not everyone lives in your perfect world and not everyone lives up to your judgment of extra-marital affairs.

          For the record, he doesn’t have to “release” me. I am free to go whenever I want. You don’t seem to understand that because you are so hell-bent on proving yourself right.

          6) Lastly, you seem to think that because people know about your affair, that makes it okay. I know you THINK his family is all on board with you. In my extended family, I have had a married man (an uncle) bring around a woman who was not his wife. We were polite to this other woman, even gracious. But, no one approved of the relationship. Some of your family members don’t really approve and some of his his don’t either. Just because you set aside your spiritual beliefs to date a MM, you should not assume that everyone around you thinks it is okay. When I was a new college graduate and had just got hired, I was one of the youngest women in my company. I worked with a lot of women, most of them older than me, and a few men They were all very nice and it was a good start in my field. One woman and I got particularly chummy. After awhile, she revealed to me that she had been seeing a married man for about three years. I was taken aback and we really didn’t discuss it anymore. She never brought him around me. Because she was open about it, many of the other co-workers knew. Most of them were married and they DID NOT approve. I rose the rank in the company pretty fast and within 3 years, I was in management meetings discussing who would be given assignments, raises, etc. I brought my friend up as a possibility for an outside assignment that would have put more money in her pockets. She was passed over with little discussion. I approached one of the senior women after the meeting to try and personally advocate for my friend. Because this woman mentored me, she gave it to me straight. She said, G____a was not considered a trustworthy employee and that the other women did not feel comfortable working with her. My friend was not a gorgeous man-stealer that the other women feared. She was actually pudgy, only marginally attractive but was a good conversationalist; she was good at her job. But, to flounce such a relationship publically hurt hurt credibility in the work place. When the other women talked about outings with their husbands, she would mention dates with her MM. Eventually, she was given fewer and fewer assignments until she was just part-time. There were some changes in the company economically and others had positions reduced or eliminated as well. But, she was always the first to be cut. She left the position after awhile, stopped dating the MM and found her own husband. You seem to think that because people know what you are doing that makes it okay. Again, just my experience, but most people don’t approve. Most people don’t buy into the, “we just fell madly in love” scenario. I must say that with adult women, such talk looks juvenile, seems like junior high school behavior and borders on silly. It is hard to take those women seriously in other areas of their lives. Again, I point out Rielle Hunter, Gennifer Flowers, Monica Lewinsky, etc. What about that astronaut Lisa Nowak, who drove across country in a diaper to confront her romantic rival? In the end, all three astronauts got fired once the love triangle became public knowledge. And, Lisa was married to someone else!~!

          So glad this is the last because, frankly, I’m getting bored with this, but I’m too polite to stop now. I see you’re still bringing up hypothetical people and their stories who can “prove” that you are oh-so-right. First of all, if you can show this much hate and judgment on other women that you don’t know and their men, that you also don’t know, I can’t imagine you being “polite” and “civil” to an “uncle’s” mistress.

          Nice touch by adding a little story about a hypothetical “co-worker” too. If this were true, the EEOC and the ACLU would love to hear this story since it would be considered as discrimination.

          You also love to bring up public affairs gone wrong. Leave it alone. Most MM/OW or MW/OM relationships are not like this. We’re not obsessive, weak people just out to screw a guy, any guy.

          You are not going to change your mind about any of this, and I’m sure you will be putting your own spin on my response. Maybe you’ll even find another hypothetical “friend/co-worker/relative” who had an affair gone wrong somehow. I don’t expect you to all of a sudden accept that affairs happen, that they can be monogamous, based on love and friendship instead of just sex, and that the married party in the affair can be honest with his or her other. What I do expect, though, is that you stop twisting things around to suit your agenda and stop insulting anyone reading who may be in love with a married man or woman. Sure, there are those who fall into the stereo-types, but for the most part, we are humans with human feelings who fell in love.

          Learn to agree to disagree. I know I have. I only responded to you because I can’t allow you to judge people you don’t know as “immoral”. I also can’t ignore the fact that you call my guy a bad father because he doesn’t fall into your little cookie-cutter mold. Let me again quote your Bible: Judge not lest ye be judged. Take that to heart.

          • OW,

            Another point. If you read the bible, yes, you would understand that Christians do follow New Testament law. What’s the problem with that? Here’s the kicker. Even under the Old Testament, what you are doing would not fly as all parties needed to be in agreement with the man having multiple wives. You are still just the chick on the side.

            You never did address the issue of when your morality is a part of your life. If not for a primary relationship that is the major relationship in your life, when do you “bring out” your morality?

        • You’re wasting your time. OW is so amazingly delusional that nothing, and I mean nothing gets through. And you are absolutely right – surely not first or last A for this MM.

          When you point out contradictions, in her own words, she goes on the attack.

          • Oh, goodie! Look who’s back….

            It’s amazing how you can call me every other OW names, and that’s not an “attack”, but if I respond to your rude, nasty, self-righteous comments, I’m going “on the attack” or, as you’ve said before, “being defensive”. So, I guess it’s OK for you and everyone like you who doesn’t agree with our lifestyle to insult us, but it’s NOT OK for us to stick up for ourselves.

            As for the “contradictions”….this blog is a work in progress. I don’t know about you, but my life isn’t perfect and I have some ups and downs. Some days, I’m as happy as a pig in poop, other days, I wonder why I bother trying. So, any “contradictions” are just part of natural emotions. I also notice that you don’t point out the obvious misreadings that Mrs Wife is giving to my posts. One recent was the “went to visit with his sister”, when what I said was visit with his sister”. There’s a difference.

            You love to call me “delusional”, yet it seems that you are the delusional one since you want us all to think that you are oh-so-happy that you divorced your cheating husband and took all his money. Dear, if you were as happy as you would like us to believe, you wouldn’t be trolling my site looking for attention. Oh…I’m sorry….was that an attack?

    • I am the OW and I would like to awnser your questions.

      I started my relationship with my MM 11 years ago (wow it has been that long? LOL WOw).

      1.) One I know for sure he does still have sex with his wife. We been together for 11 years and he does have 3 children with her one that is 12, 6, and 5. In recent years she hasn’t had sex with him that often as they used to. When I saw him last weekend, he said that it was 8 months since they had sex last. I am fine with that he does still have sex with her. He lives 3 hours away now and seriously a man has needs.

      2.) I know for sure that he did not have an affair with anyone else but me. He actually had sex with two people, his wife and me. Since het got married at 21 and we started our affair a year after that, I doubt that he had an affair.

      3.) We were sort of caught once back in 2006. He accidently left his e-mail open and saw messages between me and him. They were not sexual in any content (we are not the dirty talking kind of people). However, we would end our messages in love you or miss you. That sparked a hole load of trouble. She was going though PPD and ended up attempting sucide. I felt so bad for her and for his kids. I don’t want them to be without a mother and I do hope that she does find someone that is compatiable with her. She is just not a right match for my MM. I know this because before our affair, I did make an attempt to befriend her and it ended up sour because she saw me as a threat (funny thing I was trying to date her brother! LOL). Either way, we did back off for a little bit. He still wanted to see me but I told him to go to her and make sure that she is mentally healthy. He would e-mail me and I wouldn’t respond to him for several months.

      People do not understand the finincal and emotional burdern divorces are. They have 3 kids and if he divorced her that is 32% wage garnishment. In addition she would try to get maintence and that is another 15% wage garnishment. Almost half of his income would be gone. When you look on the other side of the coin, it’s cheaper to keep her. Importantly, he loves his children so very much that if he did divorce her, then he wouldn’t see his children every day like he does now.

      People think that it is all about having sex. It isn’t. Yes we do have sex but for example last weekend he was in town and I was on my period so we just sat cuddled and watched Dr. Who. It’s about love and being loved in return.

      I never EXPECTED in a million years that I would be the OW. It just happened. We did keep our relationship just a “friend based” but it didn’t last very long.

      • Hi, Virginia!

        Black Iris, who has been commenting non-stop and giving unsolicited advice here has a bit of her “advice” for you. Previously, I told her to stop giving her advice to my readers unless someone specifically asked her for it. I told her that any further advice from her would not be approved unless the person she addresses would like to see it. I am now giving you that option. If you would like to see what Black Iris has to say, I will approve the comment.

        Thanks!

    • Gio – notes from a happily married woman – what I would would depend a lot on my history with my husband. Basically, is he an honest person who was faithful for years – give him another chance. Has he done it before – no. I would avoid dealing with an OW unless I were trying to find out more and maybe prepare fir a divorce. This is because I do not think someone who is willing to sleep with a married man is likely to have compassion and back off if I asked her to
      (I realize some might, but I would have no way to know which kind of person she was.) Also I would not want to listen to rationalizations and I do not believe in revenge.

      • Black Iris….

        Previously, I told you that I would not be approving your unsolicited advice given to those writing to my site. I am now telling you that I am not approving your “advice” to “Virginia”. I will let her know that you have given her your “advice” and if she would like to hear it, I will only then approve it.

        • This is incredibly wrong. You advise people to sleep with married men and wont let them hear any other advice. Please anyone sleeping with a married person, I know you want to feel supported, but this website is full of toxic bad advice that can only make your life worse.

          • Black Iris…

            I have told you already that if you want to give your own closed-minded “advice” to other women, you may create your own site for that purpose. I will not have you giving unsolicited advice to people who comment here.

            I have let the women you made your comments to know that they are here. I didn’t delete them…I just didn’t approve them. I am giving these women the choice to decide if they want to see them or not. This is not “wrong”…this is common courtesy. These woman have seen YOUR toxic posts and may not want your biased opinions of them. I give my opinions honestly and without judgment. You, however, are the one judging and everything you have written so far is toxic. You see what you want to see, and blindly comment on what you see in your head. I will not subject anyone to this any longer unless they tell me it’s what they want. This shouldn’t be a surprise to you since I did let you know beforehand that this is what I would be doing if you continued. I am approving this comment because it was directed at me. Don’t change your strategies and respond to ME as a way to get to someone else. I do read all comments before approving. So far, your comments are the only ones I’ve had to keep hidden.

            Also, let me get something straight here:

            I do not ENCOURAGE or ADVISE people to sleep with married men. The women who comment here are already involved with married men. Even knowing this, I have advised many to stop because as an outsider looking in (at the comments they’ve made), I felt that this would be better for all involved. Of course, you will not acknowledge that this is the truth.

    • Gio – some more thoughts from a married lady. I also believe that most people do not set out to have an affair with a married person. Many of them are lied to as OW was. However I do not think this is just something that happens. You make choices about who you spend your time with or sleep with.

      I think that the term home -wrecker is not a useful one, but I think that having affairs damages marriages. The person who sleeps with a married person is creating and/or adding to problems in a marriage. These problems can lead to divorce and usually make the divorce nastier. The children are often mad at the cheating parent and may be even madder at the OW or OM.

  4. Thank you OW. Your kind words are appreciated and I can understand the skepticism. I call that “good” discernment. Lol

    Thank you Gio for outstanding writing skills. Quite a talent.

    Unfortunately, I am neither married or the OW so I cannot answer your questions. The perspective and the feelings that I can relate to is the child in the scenario.

  5. Hi Gio,

    I’m happy to answer your questions, and I think you will see that the answers may be similar, but each situation has its own unique twists. The thing that carries through all that I am aware of is MUTUAL LOVE. It’s not just one way, or temporary, but mutual and deep and long-lasting.

    Also, before I get to the questions, I agree — mistress belongs with BDSM images, not the loving relationship I share with my married man. I prefer the term lover, or even girlfriend. That is how he introduces me to others, and it’s comfortable, even though we are in our mid-fifties.

    So – the questions:

    TO THE OTHER WOMEN OUT THERE:
- Please assume that you are the other woman, but that your guy makes it clear that he doesn’t sleep with his wife anymore. If you discovered that this wasn’t true, would you still be with him or would that be a deal breaker? Why?

    This is difficult for me, because my guy has never said this, and I know that he does sleep with his wife when she is willing, though he doesn’t particularly enjoy it, and it happens only 2 or 3 times a year. So — the fact that he was/is still sleeping with his wife is not the deal breaker for me. What would give me a great deal of pause is that he was not honest about it in the first place. That honesty and trust is the bedrock of our relationship. If I discovered that my trust in him was misplaced I would have concerns.

    Given the concerns about honesty, I would also have a very open and direct conversation with him about why he felt the need to lie about sleeping with his wife. The response would determine whether I stayed or not.

    
- What if you discovered that he had another affair before you? Would that make you suspicious of him or would it simply reinforce the premise that his marriage hasn’t been doing too well for a while? And what if he was having ANOTHER affair (in addition to the one that you are participating in)?

    This is much easier. My MM has had another affair, and I know all about it. It was 7 years before we met, relatively short, and ended when his wife discovered it. I look at this as a clear indication that his marriage has not been happy nor satisfying for a very long time, and it is not threatening to me at all.

    If I learned that he was having another affair during our relationship (I actually hate the word affair as well — what he and I have is a relationship), my response would depend on two things – whether he was just looking for a physical experience and whether he believed he was in love with her. If it was just the need for variety and a physical release I would not be terribly concerned. We have a relatively open relationship and sometimes sexual variety is part of that. But, if he had actually fallen in love I would have some concern. Would I end things — maybe not. It is possible to love more than one person. I would want complete openness about it, and if I ever felt that I was somehow not his priority I would consider ending things – though that’s a hard decision.

    
- Bella Scelta, you once told me that you encourage your MM to sleep with him wife. May I ask why? What sort of benefits does it bring to you? Is it simply because you love him and you want to see him happy?

    I am going to answer this even though not addressed to me. I encourage my MM to sleep with his wife when she is willing and he has an interest. By doing so, he avoids any suspicion that might cause us to be exposed. And, they have been married for more than 30 years – if she needs a sexual release and turns to him, that’s fine. Sex in general has nothing to do with why we are together. It is awesome with the two of us, but that’s because of the honesty and trust and love and shared attitudes about sex. Having sex with his wife does not make him happy — in fact, he struggles to perform with her, which makes him very unhappy. Yet he has none of those issues with me. So, I am not threatened at all by the fact that once in awhile she wants sex and he provides it – they are married – it’s expected.

    
- If you were confronted by your MM’s wife and you were truly convinced that she still loves him (regardless of whatever evidence you were exposed to in the past), would you back off and let her have him? Why or why not?

    I would not back off unless he asked me to because he loved her and no longer loved me. She may (and I think still does) love him. But he does not love her. He feels a duty to her, an obligation that he can’t walk away from unless she tells him that’s what she would prefer. I respect him for that. If he did love her, we would not be together. If confronted, I would ask her to have a serious, honest conversation with him about what he wants and whether he loves her or me. And, knowing what she has done before, she would probably want him to stay regardless, and knowing why he stays, he probably would. I would only ask her that she not object to our relationship as well, and I would be happy to keep it as hidden as it is now. My only claim is to his heart. I need nothing more than that.

    • HOW – I do not understand how you can say your relationship is based on honesty when you know he lies to his wife. It does not make sense to trust a liar.

      • Black Iris…

        Happy Other Woman has agreed to see your comments. The ones you wrote to her have been approved.

  6. OW,

    I didn’t need to fabricate any stories. Or give hypotheticals. My good friend who cheated and got dumped and the friend at work who got passed over for the better work assignments are both real women. The EEOC and ACLU would not have an actionable cause. Women who cheat are not a protected class like minorities or the disabled. Even if she knew how management felt and could prove it, she created the basis for being untrustworthy; she was cheating. Individually her work was good but other people didn’t want to work on group projects with her. The job did require group work at times. Kinda foolish for her to talk about it at her place of emp0loyment.

    And, the uncle who had the OW accompany him to a family function is also real. He actually married the OW after 15+ years. That should make you happy. Then, he died at 52 years of age from a massive heart attack. Stress no doubt. The OW is not close to the family at all. She had a child with my uncle so she does come to family functions. We are polite to her; she is more tolerated than beloved. Interestingly, the person who is the kindest to her is my uncle’s first wife. Since they both had children by him, the first wife felt it was best to be cordial for the children’s sake.

    You actually don’t answer any tough questions. All you do is wave the judgemental flag and jump to something else. His cheating with you and probably others is why the wife doesn’t trust him. Simple. You jumped to why she doesn’t let the daughter go out with him. You never addressed that his cheating is reason not to trust him.

    BTW, If the only reason he wants to take out his daughter alone is to meet you, I don’t blame the wife. The wife has a right not to subject her child to negative influences during her formative years. When she reaches 18 years old, if she wants to meet you that will be her adult choice to make. But, here is a dirty little secret you may not want to acknowledge especially since you said your MM needs to grow a set of testicles. Ever think the MM doesn’t want you to meet his daughter? He blames it on his wife but it is probably his choice. Why would he want you to meet his kid? You are the embodiment of everything negative he is doing. Do you really expect him to introduce you to the kid and say, “this is the woman I really love”. More middle school, Romeo-Juliet thinking………grow up.

    • You jumped to why she doesn’t let the daughter go out with him. You never addressed that his cheating is reason not to trust him.

      I said that his wife doesn’t trust him to take his daughter out alone. As I’ve said, she is over-protective of the child.

      BTW, If the only reason he wants to take out his daughter alone is to meet you, I don’t blame the wife. The wife has a right not to subject her child to negative influences during her formative years.

      I also never said that he wanted a chance to take his daughter out alone so she could meet me. That is yet another of your spins on things. He would simply like a chance to take his daughter out to lunch or on Father/Daughter school trips and such. Nothing to do with me.

      Anything else you have to say is nonsense, IMO, since you don’t know any of us. You try to make things about religion and moral as opposed to immoral behavior. You do fail to realize that married people turn to others not simply for sex. In fact, many don’t go out LOOKING for others to become involved in, just like other women/men don’t go out looking for married people to date. Sometimes, you find the person who makes you happy.

      Now, I’ve had enough. If anyone else wants to answer more comments from this person, feel free. The last one I will answer will be when she tells me which “long post” I made that says he faked illness to visit his sister and avoided me.

      Sorry for all the judgments. If you all want me to stop posting her comments, please let me know.

      • OW,

        Of course you will answer me because each click on this website translates into money for you. If you blocked people, your traffic would slow down. You might like giving advice to others in these truly sad situations but you do so without any balance or wisdom.

        Your basic premise is that each mm who approaches a woman outside his marriage does so because he is trapped in a loveless or strife-filled marriage. Only the ow can provide him peace, love and happiness. Most of the time, the couple has personal issues and lacks the ability to work out problems. When they get it together, he stops seeing the ow. That leaves the ow without a relationship and, often without support. And yes, she wasted her time and ruined her reputation. I have read some of these posts. Very sad stories. no need to live like that.

        i post to remind women there is a better way to live. You tell them keep going back for more. You generally approach being the ow as a reasonable and viable option. You condone and promote second class citizenship. Yes, I approach it from a moral stand point. But even taking the spiritual aspect away, a woman who puts herself in this situation DOES DAMAGE TO HERSELF. Forget the wife, the kids, the man. The constant push-pull, the drama. Often not having him available when you need him. The lonely holidays. Always trying to decide if you should leave. That’s not love. That’s damage.

        Check your post from January 1, 2011. You wrote that your MM said he was sick and couldn’t see you but recovered enough the next day to visit his sister. You implied his illness was not that severe. You said that….

        • ROFL!!! WOW!!! Another good spin! January 2011 was a VERY bad month for me. I was sick, he was sick and I was dealing with the boss from hell. I have always said that being the OW is a rollercoaster ride and this was a month of many downs. Yes, he was sick and couldn’t be with me. He called to tell me this. I freaked out because of what I knew was going to happen that week, on top of the fact that I, too, was sick but knew I had to go to work in 2 days. I was to go back to work on 1/3 after an unjustified 30 day suspension and I knew that the second I got back, my boss would do all that she could to get me to quit. As for him GOING to visit his sister…didn’t happen. His sisters call him and tell him when they are going to visit HIM. They are never invited because his wife doesn’t like them or their boyfriends, so the only way to see their niece is to call, say “We’ll be there such and such a time tomorrow” and hang up. The words I said were “visit with”. I never said “going to his sister’s house”. That is not done.

          Another great spin of yours is that I say that ALL men who enter into extra-marital relationships is because “he is trapped in a loveless or strife-filled marriage. Only the ow can provide him peace, love and happiness.” I have never said this. Affairs happen for many reasons, some of which are that the man is a lying SOS and just wants to get laid no matter what. I also never said that having an affair with a married man is something anyone should aspire to. In fact, I’ve said the opposite. You seem to think that all men run to another woman the second there is trouble in the marriage. This is not the case. For some men, there doesn’t need to be “trouble” and the only “problem” is that his wife won’t have sex with him more than twice a week. But for others, the couple grows apart (I know that maybe in YOUR world, this doesn’t happen, but in the real world it does) and finds that the love is no longer there, but they stay in the marriage so as not to rock the boat for any children (though I have also said I don’t think this is a good reason), for security (the wife likes her lifestyle), and for financial reasons (divorce can be expensive, especially if there are problems with visitation). This last group are the people who don’t go out looking for affairs, but they happen to meet the right person. This happens with both men AND women who have affairs. I’ve said it over and over again….life happens. We just follow the twists and turns.

          As you can see from all of my posts, my rollercoaster isn’t completely over, but it is starting to wind down. We’re now in a comfort zone. I know that he has a very hectic work schedule, so I don’t expect him to be able to spend hours with me every night, but he sees me just about every day. Even on my volleyball nights, if he gets out of work at his normal time, he will stop by here and we’ll go grab some coffee/iced tea and talk over that. He then leaves so we can continue our chat on the phone as he’s driving home and before I go pick up my teammates.

          Our relationship isn’t perfect, but, what relationship is?

          One more thing before I end this….You think I make money off this site?!?!?!? That’s funny! I started this site on the advise of a friend. I was going through that rough time at work and so wanted to quit my job, but wasn’t able to. He suggested that I start a blog about something that I know so I could start making money with promotions. After much thought, I realized that I couldn’t be the only one in a relationship with a married man, but some may not have the support that I have from my friends and his family. That is how this was born. To tell my story and maybe give others a voice and a place to ask for opinions and advice. I do very little to promote this site. Every now and then, I will go to answer sites and drop my link if it’s relevant to the question. Apparently, I was right about others being in the same situation. This is my story…no one else’s. I can only give support and understanding. I can’t and don’t judge because how can I judge someone for being in the same situation I’m in? We all need someone to talk to…I’m here to “listen”. You think I need you to keep posting your judgments in order to keep traffic to the site up? That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Somehow, without you, this site was mentioned on the radio in Australia, Singapore and South Africa (that I know of). Money maker? ROFL! I’m just happy when I can help another woman (or man) who is in love with someone who happens to be married to someone else.

          Oh….BTW….I’m sure you will be thinking on how to spin the trouble I was having with my boss in 2011 about my relationship. For the record, the trouble was about discrimination. The lawsuit is pending.

        • I can’t believe that after suggesting that we not respond to these closed-minded posts I am doing just that. But, obviously Mrs Wife has not read as much as she suggests. Though there are definitely people who post here who are struggling in this type of relationship, there are others, including me, who are happy. Apparently anyone who is not complaining gets ignored as Mrs Wife tries to justify her rants.

          She says: “The constant push-pull, the drama. Often not having him available when you need him. The lonely holidays. Always trying to decide if you should leave. That’s not love. That’s damage.”

          Well, my MM and I have none of that. There is no push-pull, no drama. He is available if I need him, and I am just as available to him. Holidays are holidays – I’ve never liked them whether I was alone or married or dating, and I don’t particularly like them now that I am blissfully in love. But that has NOTHING to do with my relationship with my MM. We spend some holidays together – others we don’t. It depends on the circumstances at the time.

          Additionally, I have never struggled with whether I should leave this relationship. The one time that was even mentioned was when he moved across the country – I would have had to think about that situation even if he was single, because I am settled in my life here. It took no time at all for the two of us to agree that there was no ending this – it really had nothing to do with “us” and everything to do with 2000 miles.

          I guess the reason I find myself responding to this, even against my better judgment, is the assertion that this is not love. The trust, honesty, openness, respect, caring and sharing that I experience with my MM is the kind of love that everyone hopes for, and very few find. We happened to find it with each other. We are both happier than we have ever been, and we don’t question our relationship at all. We expect it will continue as it is, or as it needs to change based on the rest of our lives, both separate and together.

          So — before making the generalization that all other women are unhappy and struggling to determine what to do with their relationship, Mrs Wife should really read ALL of the posts on here and stop picking and choosing those that fit her agenda.

          • Hi, Happy OW!

            Thanks for your kind words. I’ve done as you’ve asked, so here is your response to Mrs. Wife.

  7. Hi,

    I am going to chime in about whether to continue posting these tirades. I am a strong believer in allowing everyone the right to speak and to hold their own opinion. So, even though these postings have at times been critical, judgmental, unsupported, and repetitive, in a forum like this it never hurts to have multiple points of view. However, there is no obligation to actually respond to the postings. Doing so simply encourages more, and invites nitpicking arguments.

    To date, you, OW, have done an admirable job of addressing specific points and pointing out contradictions and unsupported assertions. I see no need to continue. This commenter has made her point, bases it on strong religious beliefs, which are difficult to argue with, especially for those of us who do not believe in organized religion, and she will continue as long as she gets a response from any of us.

    I keep returning to this blog because I am looking for the support and stories of others in my situation. I don’t mind hearing criticism, if it’s provided in a healthy, respectful way. But, whether it is or not, the criticism cannot be taken personally, because no one knows exactly what each of our relationships is like, or what each of our MM is like. And, though we have some common experiences and ideas, we cannot be considered “all in the same boat.” We may be on the same body of water, but our boat and our direction and our experiences are all unique.

    So — my suggestion is to continue to allow the posts, and if others want to chime in and respond, let them do so. But please don’t feel that you have to defend yourself against these criticisms, or that you have to defend all of us as a group. The less we respond, the less the reward for the negative postings, and hopefully they will eventually end. I would much prefer to see your energy used to provide thoughts, comments, and questions for those of us who are here to share a common bond — the fact that we happen to have fallen in love with a married man. I don’t ever feel the need to defend my situation. It is what it is. And I live with it. Others don’t have to agree, and don’t have to like it. But I don’t have to defend it to anyone but myself and my MM.

    • I agree. The only reason I’ve approved her rants is because she IS entitled to her opinion, but I know I’m getting bored with the twists that she makes on everything said. But, I think you’re right…I’ll continue to approve.

      Thanks! ;-)

    • (Supposedly) Happy Other Woman,

      People find themselves in all kinds of situations, not always of his/her own making. However, the relationship of dating a married man is one that can be chosen. Or not chosen. I hear you when you say, you are happy. I feel sorry for you. That you CHOOSE to be with another woman’s husband, and do so proudly and happily speaks volumes.

      I have seen and read about people who make a decision that is not in their own best interest and later come to regret it. It takes a lot to look a mistake in the face and call it a mistake. It make take years but you will grow to resent the years that you spent with this married man or any other married man. With wisdom comes growth. We should regret wrong behavior…if we grow.

      Frankly, I am not sure why my posts are more upsetting than any other. You and others make your posts repeating the same mantra, “my married man loves me…this is good”. My posts merely give balance and food for thought. If a woman is coming to this website looking for advice/information/direction, should she not hear both sides of the spectrum?

      You have an opinion; I have an opinion. You live your lifestyle; I live mine. You post what you want to post. I will post what I want to post. That there continues to be discussion of whether opposing opinions shouold be posted is, in itself, proof, that the lifestyle is troubling at best. If you and others are so boastful, so secure, so strong and so convicted in the manner in which you live, there should be no issue if one posts an alternative view to your reality.

  8. Well I have to put in my two cents because that is the way I am… Lol

    The interesting thing is I see valid points in both the OW and Mrs. Wife which both seem to actually be closer to common ground than either of the posts express. If I don’t express this correctly, I am pre-apologizing.

    Mrs. Wife does bring up that the wife may not let the daughter out because she does not trust him because of the affair. OW states it is because of overprotection. I think both of you are correct.

    I am not saying this is a fact. To me it is quite possible that the the wife is overprotecting the child out of fear because the trust with this man has been broken from years of being in an affair. I am concluding whether this is right or wrong but once trust is broken. It is usually broken in all areas.

    • Hi, J…

      Let me try to explain the over-protectiveness:

      From what I understand, the child had very bad colic when she was born and it lasted for quite a long time. Because of this, my guy’s wife refused to leave her side for a second, not even allowing her own parents to watch the girl. This was a pattern that started at birth and goes on to this day. In fact, the “mistrust” extended to short walks around the block when the girl was a toddler. My guy was not “allowed” to play daddy and walk his daughter down the street. Even now, at almost 13 years old, this girl isn’t allowed out of the house unless her mother comes with her. In other words, she’s still having “play dates” where the parents are present.

      One night, about 6 months ago, the child wanted to meet her friends at the mall. Mom refused to bring her, so she called Dad. He had just gotten off of a 12 hour shift at work and was taking a short nap at my house when she called. He left immediately to bring her to meet her friends. Needless to say, mom was NOT happy when he refused to listen and took his daughter over the protests.

      I’ve seen this kind of behavior a lot in “older” parents. Maybe it has to do with the risk of pregnancy after 40 that makes these women hover to the point where the poor kids want to sneak off just to be alone for a little bit. I have a friend who had her daughter at the age of 38. That girl just last year started sleeping in her own bed, and she’s now 10 years old. Next move, I hope, will be for the girl to actually sleep in her own bed in her OWN ROOM. Yes, she shares a room with mom. I cringe!!!! LOL!!!

      Any mistrust doesn’t come from his having affairs. He’s never before cheated on anyone he has been with. I know this may sound strange coming from the other woman, but my guy is very loyal and would never hurt anyone he loves who loves him back (that is the key here…she stopped loving him before HE stopped loving her). His wife just wants to be in total control when it comes to the child to the extent that even if his wife is there and they are going to the mall or visiting her relatives, SHE must always drive. So, I guess it’s not so much a matter of not trusting…that may have been the wrong word to use…but a matter of wanting control. Either way, it has nothing to do with me.

      I grew up to be very independent. My mother had her own business and by the time I was 10, I was answering the phone in her office and at home and keeping her appointment book current. By the time I was 12, I was spending some weekends alone when my parents went away. It was usually just for one night, and it was a different world back then, but I was responsible and knew who to call if I needed anything. I also knew that if anyone called that I didn’t know, never to say my parents weren’t home. I also knew how to escape the house in case of emergency. When I was 14, my parents went on a cruise and I stayed home. By that time, I was a really good cook (I had been making dinner on the nights my mom worked late), so my starving was never an issue. Today, there would be major problems leaving a child home alone for a week at the age of 14, but I would hope that by 12, that child could be trusted to stay alone in the house for a few hours. Because I grew up to be independent, that is how I raised my kids. I only asked that they be home when I got home from work so I knew they were OK, then they could go off again after dinner to be back just before dark. I also recognized that as they got older, the “mommy” role shifts to a “mom” role. Some people don’t get this concept.

      I do get, however, that some may see her mistrust/control/over-protectiveness as a result of the relationship he has with me, but it has been going on for far longer than I have been in the picture.

  9. Hello All;
    Im not really sure where to start, but I came across your website because I was looking for some answers/advice..I will try to keep it straight and to the point because I have a tendency to carry on…
    Ive been dating a MM for 2 1/2 yrs now, he loves his wife, hes not in love with her, they have a 21yr old son that has only recently moved out..they have been married 22 yrs..2 1/2 yrs ago he came into my life, we had meet 5 yrs prior but only had occasional contact through email..I knew he was married, but when we first started to have stronger feelings for each other, he had told me he wasnt ready to leave his wife, it would take a year or two, whereas he was concerned about his 18 yr old son that was still living at home at the time, he didnt want to be seen as anything less in his eyes, there was a couple other reasons also, but the fact remains, I was told tonight he doesnt have any intentions on leaving her, he feels he cant…theres to much history etc there,,,now they havent had any sexual relations in 7 yrs , shes VERY bitter about it, they still share a bed and a rental home..they file taxes etc but no retirement funds etc, But now on the flip side, he says im his soul mate and his best friend, we work together (driving delivering food) we spend from 830am to 930-10 pm EVERY DAY together, he comes to my dr appointments, some family functions etc, whereas he goes to NONE of hers, we have fallen in love with each other, and I dont know how to turn back, I DONT feel guilty about seeing him, but I was lead to believe that he would leave her within a couple years…and now he feels thats not going to happen..im wondering what i should do, neither one of us is having any other affair other then with each other…we have been away for week trips with each other on 5 or 6 different times…can someone please give me advice

    • Hi, Confused!

      I can see why you are confused in all this. First, you’re told that he would probably leaving his wife when his son was out of the house, but now that he is, your MM tells you he has no intention of leaving.

      What you need to do is look at what YOU want. Can you accept that you will always be the OW, or do you want/need more? You seem to like each other or you never would be able to spend that much time a day in cramped quarters without wanting to pull your hair out! ;-) Can you also continue to accept the fact that your MM is still sleeping in the same bed as his wife, even though they don’t have sex. Personally, I don’t think I can accept that. I don’t know if his wife knows he’s seeing you, but if she doesn’t and finds out, what will he do if she demands that he stop seeing you? You say that she’s bitter about the fact that they share a bed, yet don’t have sex. Is she bitter enough to demand that he end it with you, or will she “seduce” him one night to insure that they’re sexual relations are rekindled?

      Another one of your problems here is that you work together and do spend a large part of the day with each other. How will it affect your job is the two of you broke up? I work with my guy too, but just on weekends and I don’t have to see him the entire time we’re working. Also, that is a second job for me and I really don’t have to continue on it.

      You are really the only one who can answer any questions about what you should do. You need to ask yourself the questions I posed and see if this is how you want to live. Talk to your man about this…what would HIS answers be? You know how you feel about each other and you know if those feelings are strong enough to get through anything together. Dear Abby used to tell women who asked if they should leave their husbands: “Ask yourself this: Would you be better off WITH him, or WITHOUT him?” It’s a very good question.

      Whatever you do, I wish you the best!

  10. Thank you, for responding so quickly, I have had a deep conversation with him yesterday and today, He says he cant leave her, partly because he loves her, shes been his partner for 22 years, his family adores her (they live in England) and he doesn’t want to lose the respect from his son, he thinks his son will end up hating him, if he were to leave, personally I feel it is because he was abandoned by his father at a young age, and seen the struggles his mother went through (he has just recently in the last 3 months) started to have a relationship through letters with his biological father, he has often used the words he cant do that to her…It does bother me that he shares a bed still with her, but I truly believe there is NOTHING that goes on between them, he has told her about 7 -8 years ago that he couldn’t keep an erection and because of that she doesn’t persist, she had let it slip in conversation between us once that its been 6 yrs without sex for her…i just pretended that i didn’t hear her…(but was glad she said it) I explained to him that I feel deceived whereas I was lead to believe that in time we would be together he was going to tell her he was leaving, then find a place, then in 3-4 months time, run it by his son that he was thinking about asking me on a date and then going from there, but he never wanted his wife or his son to know that i was already a part of his life, he told me he is in love with me, that he loves me , wants me in his life that he needs me in his life, but doesn’t know what his future holds..the wife doesn’t know about us, but i see her daily, the only alone time they have together is when i drop him off at night after work, until i pick him up the next morning, they don’t kiss or hug goodbye anymore, he never tells her he loves her, unless she calls when were at work and at the end of conversation he has to say i love you to (to prevent suspection) and then apoligizes to me..knowing it bothers me..she is what you call the stepford wife, dinner, coffees, etc etc, she doesnt allow him to do to much..let me do that for you, i can do it for you etc etc, she needs to feel needed…shes like that with EVERYONE, including me…she wouldnt try to seduce him, i think mostly to do with fear of rejection… even when she buys him a card (birthday, anniversary, etc) she writes a big speach in it, like thank you for choosing me as your wife and giving me a son, i want to grow old with you, etc etc..i dont mean to sound bitter or ramble on but i appreciate your comments and to know im not alone…

    • Hi, Confused….

      This is what you need to figure out: is he so good to you and for you that you can continue knowing that you will always be the other woman? Is the love that strong? If it is, then I wish you all the best. Some guys are worth it. I know mine is.

  11. Yes we love each other that much, he is a kind and gentleman, we laugh, joke, and just generally love each others company and miss each other when were apart..He is worth it…thank you =)

    • Confused in Canada,

      I will give you an alternate view. Let’s say I am a guy who is married. Same wife for 18 years. I love her, we share a bed together (maybe not sex but we are in bed together) we file taxes together, have a child together, all the things you admit in your first two posts. But, I wanna fool around. Maybe I am the kinda guy who does not work to improve the marital relationship but think it would be fun to have sex with another woman. So, I meet a girl. I tell her that, drum roll please, “I love my wife but I AM NOT IN LOVE WITH HER”. That’s a classic cheater line, btw. It generates sympathy for the married man without making him look like a total jerk for cheating. Then I throw in some concern about what my 18 YEAR OLD son would think about me if I left his mother (as if the son’s thoughts of the father have not already been formed in the previous 18 years). I talk about some pain and backstory of my formative years (we all have issues from childhood…ok). I top it off with promises to leave in the next 2 or 3 years. So, I keep the woman dangling for that 2 to 3 year period until the time is up. Once pushed, I tell the other woman that, I cannot leave. I have too much history with the wife, my marriage, my son, finances, etc. etc. What if I knew from day one that I never planned to leave my wife? What if you were set up from the start? He may love you as a friend and co-worker. But, clearly, you are not going to be leading lady in his life…..ever…he likes it just the way it is. You were never thought of as wife material. You got the chick on the side plate special. That is where it stands now.

      Ok. So, since that is where it is, how long do you plan to live like this? Five more years? Ten more years? Other Woman is going to get mad for me posing this question but, what do your morals and values tell you to do? Other Woman gave you her advice, let me offer mine as well. You are a beautiful woman with strength, energy and vitality to share with this world. It is unnecessary to confine yourself to a man who is committed to another woman and another family. He cannot give you what you want, need and deserve. Read, allow yourself to grow, travel, pray, find friendships with others, volunteer, take a class, exercise, meditate, keep busy….most of all, open yourself up to everything good that the universe has to offer you. A married man is a closed door. Go thru the open door of opportunity and true love. All the best to you as you find your higher self on a higher path. God Bless You!

  12. I found this site looking up the movie titled “The Other Woman” and I have to say I’m glad I did. These posts have been very interesting to read. All of them. I have been happily married for 14 years and I am very thankful too say that it is mutual. I also have 3 kids with him so I know how some women use children as excuses but I am happy to say that has never been a problem for us. We are still intimate every day, whether its hugging, kissing, or more ;-P. We have both cheated in the past but it was never an affair. He slept with someone close to me on a one night stand after we had been married for 5 years with no infidelities. I tried to let it go because it was a mistake on his part, she was and still is a whore, I know because she is a family member, Im not just being mean lol. I never could quite get over it for 2 years actually physically fighting with her every time we got together so I finally cheated on him too then went straight up to him and rubbed his face in it. I thought it was some great big thing but we ended up laughing it off because the other guy SUCKED in bed but hey I got my revenge and afterwards we were both able to move on and become even more happy in our relationship. And now I can actually be around the mentioned family member again without wanting to kill her. She is now with her third soon to be husband and about the 200th booty call since then and this was only 9 years ago. See the whore comment isn’t too far fetched. Anyway to my marriage again. My husband was addicted to the phone sex lines before we got married. He actually ran his moms bill up $900 one month. Don’t ask me why, I still haven’t figured out what guys get out of talking phone sex, especially when you’re getting the real thing each day. But hey to each his own. He tried to quit and that’s when he cheated on me with her so I decided to give it a try so it wouldn’t cost him so much. I laughed the whole time. I was in the kitchen and he was in the bedroom lol. I just couldn’t do it so anyway now they have those free chat lines for singles and escorts so now when he gets the urge to talk he just calls that, gets a few numbers, and sees if he can get some of them to talk to him that way for free lol. They all try to meet up with him and junk like that even though they know he is married and he is honest with them up front saying he just likes to talk and they are several states away. He never calls locally cause he don’t want to accidentally call someone he knows ;-P. I have even listened in to try to take some lessons to try spicing things up but I can never get past the famous, “What are you wearing” line.
    Any suggestions to spice things up a little?
    But back to the point at hand here. Sorry for veering off course. When I cheated on him I felt EXTREMELY FILTHY!!!! I got straight into a scalding hot shower and stayed till the water ran cold after scrubbing 5 times. I asked him if he felt the same and he said he did. So I guess it is something ingrained into the human mind of someone that has grown up their whole life in church that sexual relations are only meant to be between 1 married man and his 1 wife. Even in the Old Testament Malachi 2:14-17 it says that a man should not act treacherously against the wife of his youth. Then in Matthew 19:4-12 Jesus says marriage is between 1 MAN and 1 WOMAN once married in God’s name they become one flesh and no man (or woman) can tear apart what he has joined. It also states that divorce should only be granted in cases in which the other spouse has been sexually immoral. To divorce for any other reason and take up with another person is still adultery and in Hebrews 13:4 it states that marriage is to be respected by all and the marriage bed is to remain undefiled because you will be judged for that in heaven by God, but no one is allowed to judge you here. Some will but they are the ones who are wrong. Even the things that my husband and I do are wrong in some sense just as this but hey back then they didn’t have phones for phone sex and televisions for pornography so they didn’t get it squeezed in there. If they had I am sure it would be listed in the DO NOT DO THIS section lol. But like I said before to each his or her own so if the whole being the other woman works out for you then more power to you. Just hope the wife isn’t like me cause when my husband cheated on me I was so angry I beat her at every family gathering for two years till she finally quit coming and I had to cheat to get the rest of my rage out.

    For Gio about the book:
    I answered your questions to the married women. That’s what I did for a one night stand if it had been an affair I probably would have killed him and her both. Justifiable homicide. You don’t piss off a pregnant woman. Yeah I was 8 months pregnant at the time with our second child. I went into labor after beating the crap out of her the first time I found out. I also told you how I rebuilt trust. I got revenge. It’s great you married women should try it. Then when it was settled between us and we were both still willing to stay married and not cheat we renewed our vows. Been happy for 7 more years and still going strong. We come to terms with each others needs. He needs phone sex sometimes and I need to be overbearing and downright bitchy sometimes. LOL we meet in the middle and it works. If he ever cheated on me again I would get a divorce and go for all the child support and alimony I can get so he may get another woman but I would get all his money and she would have to support him financially. But I have no fear of that. I am faithful and he is as well.
    I hope you all find your own happiness one day.

    • Happily Married…

      I believe I have a post on what a wife can do to try to keep the marriage alive. Check it out!

      One of the things a friend of mine did was to go out and meet her husband at a hotel bar (in costume) as if they were strangers. Nothing risque….just a wig, different makeup and a sexy dress. Sometimes, she would get there first and he would walk up to her, or she would get there and walk up to him. Just be careful!! She almost got arrested for “solicitation” one night!!! LOL! She will never again wear that leather mini-skirt and fishnets!!!!

      I’m glad you no longer try to beat the crap out of your family member! But I’m sure it made for some exciting holidays!!! ;-)

  13. Can’t reply to you from the post itself, you may want to look into that, site admin. :)

    You say: As for the “contradictions”….this blog is a work in progress. I don’t know about you, but my life isn’t perfect and I have some ups and downs. Some days, I’m as happy as a pig in poop, other days, I wonder why I bother trying. So, any “contradictions” are just part of natural emotions. I also notice that you don’t point out the obvious misreadings that Mrs Wife is giving to my posts. One recent was the “went to visit with his sister”, when what I said was visit with his sister”. There’s a difference.

    By contradictions, I mean where you say things like you’ll move close to him, but only if MM lives w/you. Implication: he leaves his W. Other posts, you mention he won’t until happens. There was another post where you talked about trying to end things w/MM. Implication being: you couldn’t force him to leave his W.

    You also vilify MM’s W, but try to turn it around that you don’t. That at least makes sense, b/c if you outwardly demonize the woman whose H you’ve been sleeping w/for the last 12 years, you come across as very unsympathetic. So there are 2 examples of contradictions.

    The pig in poop analogy is apt. ;) Always makes me laugh.

    As for Mrs. Wife, she can defend her posts nicely, she doesn’t need my help.

    You also say: You love to call me “delusional”, yet it seems that you are the delusional one since you want us all to think that you are oh-so-happy that you divorced your cheating husband and took all his money. Dear, if you were as happy as you would like us to believe, you wouldn’t be trolling my site looking for attention. Oh…I’m sorry….was that an attack?

    How would you know what I love? You are projecting, along w/I “want you all to think …” Why on earth would I give a damn about what random strangers on the internet think?!? Especially you. Not even qualifying that, so don’t try to make it out like I’m calling you names. :) Ok, I’ll call you one name, it’s pretty spot on. Loquacious, as you can be w/some of your responses. ;)

    I found your site as I was trying to get some insight into XH’s crazy, stalkery OW. I wanted to get an idea of the thought process that goes along w/having a long term affair w/a MM. I gave her my XH, so I don’t get why she STILL needs to shit on my parade. I can only assume it’s b/c he won’t marry her &/or has a different OW. I absolutely do appreciate the perspective that you gals give me. :)

    Nah, that wasn’t an attack. Just a little bit of vitriol on your part. I think it’s only construed as an attack if it has the desired effect. ;)

    • The First Mrs….

      By contradictions, I mean where you say things like you’ll move close to him, but only if MM lives w/you. Implication: he leaves his W. Other posts, you mention he won’t until happens. There was another post where you talked about trying to end things w/MM. Implication being: you couldn’t force him to leave his W.

      I will respond to this even though I have given responses to this before. I am considering a move. I would LIKE to go down south…HE would like me to go further NORTH. I have told him that I will NOT move further north unless he decides to leave his wife and move in with me. The reason being that I am basically a “city girl” and don’t relish the idea of being snowed in for any length of time. I also am not crazy about being home alone and seeing a bear or mountain lion on my deck!!!! Then, there is the issue of walking my dogs on deserted streets (or in the woods), alone at night. As much as I like being alone, I don’t want to be alone in the sticks with no cell service.

      Now…notice that I said I would LIKE to move down south. That is my goal. I always told him that I would give him a chance to either decide to be with me or wish me well. I’m not expecting him to be with me, so I don’t think I have to worry about living in the sticks in the north. Bottom line…I’m sick of snow and freezing temperatures!

      I have tried to end the relationship a few times, but never because I “couldn’t force him to leave his wife”. I wouldn’t try to force him to do anything. What he does with his marriage is his business. If he wants to leave, fine. If not, fine. I’m good being by myself. When there comes a time that I’m NOT good being by myself, then I will again give him a choice to either be with me, or wish me well.

      I do not “vilify” my guy’s wife. She stopped loving him. She stopped wanting him. That doesn’t make her a demon. It makes her someone who married the wrong person. I don’t need to make myself seem more “sympathetic” because, as you’ve said, what people like you, who don’t know me, think of me, is unimportant. Those who know me know the REAL me.

      One thing about my guy’s wife that I have said: She has an intense hatred for anyone in his family. She is projecting that hate on their child, which, IMO, isn’t right. I know that things happened in the past to make this split, but it wasn’t anything so awful that it couldn’t be put aside for the sake of the child. Yes, I see why she doesn’t like his family, but the child needs to know her family…BOTH SIDES. Let her make her own decisions on who to like or not like. After all, the rift has nothing to do with the child and doesn’t affect her in any way. I don’t consider this “vilifying” someone. It’s how things are.

      As for your ex-husband’s stalker girlfriend: call the police. Stalking is illegal. Get restraining order on the broad. Also, maybe you should find out what your ex is telling her about you. You say he wants you back, but maybe he’s telling her that YOU are bothering him to take you back.

  14. OW and other fellow blog followers: thanks for the responses, this is proving to be very helpful indeed. As soon as my book comes out, I will let you guys know! :)

  15. I came across your site while looking up a movie on imdb.
    I had some time, so I read a few of your posts and some replies.
    I skimmed through more.
    As an outsider looking in and a woman who has spent happily married and then unhappily married years and who has had an affair with a MM, I accept your invitation to comment:
    I think you live in a sad world where you are willing to accept a half life.
    It sounds as though you have completely deluded yourself into believing this is a good, healthy relationship. Oh, I have no doubt you are getting what you want and need…but what you want and need is not everything you COULD have.
    Even that whole explanation about the over-protective issue w/ mom and daughter sounds sad and far-reaching (and not quite what it probably is).
    Good luck with the delusions.

    • Well, Bette…

      I guess you’ve never known anyone who is over-protective about their kids. I was the complete opposite in that I believe that our job as parents are to raise our kids to be independent and self-sufficient. Some parents aren’t like that.

      As for living half a life…I have a very FULL life. My guy isn’t with me all the time, but I don’t need that. He has an obligation to his daughter and he’s doing all he can to give her a happy childhood. When he’s not with me, I’m either with friends or home alone with a good book. I travel and do things that he’s not interested in doing.

      Delusions? I think I’ve made it very clear that I’m not under any delusions when it comes to my relationship. I know what I have and what I don’t have. Right now, I’m happy with the way things are. If that changes, then I will make a change in my life.

      But, I must say that even now, after all this time, I sometimes can’t believe how good a relationship can be. I get more from this guy than I did from anyone I’ve ever been with. He understands me and accepts me for who I am. It works both ways. I think a big part of it is that we really do LIKE each other.

      • If he is cheating, he is not doing all he can to give her a happy childhood. He is spending time and money on you instead of his family. He is destroying his marriage and will eventually get divorced. When she find out what he has done, she will be angry and she may lose her happy memories. If you have any compassion at all for her, tell her father to stay where he is, move far away, and don’t contact him again.

        • Black Iris…

          My guy is in a marriage where his wife emotionally abandoned him years ago…before me. He stays because of his daughter and has tried to give her happy childhood memories of birthday parties and vacations. He also shows her that he is involved with her life by going to any school plays, concerts or sporting events. He is not destroying his marriage…his wife did that when she emotionally abandoned him. He had to pick up the pieces. When he met me, he had to decide to remain in a loveless relationship, or try to find some happiness while also giving his daughter the “appearance” of stability.

          As I’ve said, I don’t agree with his methods, but only he and his wife can decide what to do about their marriage. I’m a firm believer that if it’s broken beyond repair, it’s time to move on. I feel it’s better for the family unit. But, again, not my place to tell him how to handle his family’s issues.

  16. OW, I can’t spend much more time on this, but I think there are a few things you should think about.

    1. The only bad thing he has said about his wife is that she won’t have sex with him. That suggests to me that he loves her and wants to stay married to her, but he got involved with you for the sex. Look at what people do not just what they say.

    2. He started by lying to you for over a year. You can not believe anything he says to get into you bed. He probably gets sex from his wife. Remember he is willing to lie to the woman he loved so much he married her and had a kid with her – he can easily lie to you too.

    • Black Iris…

      I don’t know where you get that the only bad thing my guy has told me about his wife is that she won’t have sex with him. It goes beyond that. I only stated that he doesn’t come to me and constantly complain about his wife. If he did that, I would lose respect for him. I would also get tired of hearing the same things over and over again. I’ve said time and again that sometimes, people get married for the wrong reasons. That is what happened with me and that is what happened with him and his wife. The love that they may have had has died long ago. It wasn’t easy for him to admit this. He was also in denial about his feelings for me for quite a while.

      As for him being with me just for the sex…boy, sister, do YOU have it wrong!!!! I don’t only go by what he says, but by what he does. This man does not have to work all day, then come here and help me by mowing the lawn. He doesn’t have to help me make repairs to my home. He doesn’t have to help my kids with car issues. But, he does all this. Do we have sex every time he’s here? Hell, no! Sometimes, he’s too exhausted, so he’ll take a short nap before going home to do his own yard work. There are also days where we will go to either visit with his relatives or help them out with things that need to be done at their homes. Other times, we’ll just sit at the table and talk. His wife is not a topic of our conversations.

      This is like a double-edged sword: if I said my guy constantly complains about his wife, you and those like you will say that he’s just doing this to “justify” his relationship with me. If I say he DOESN’T spend all his time complaining about his wife, you will say that he still loves her.

      Yes, he lied in the beginning. Trust me, he’s STILL hearing about that one! But, after this long, we have come to a mutual level of trust and understanding. I don’t know what he tells his wife about his time away from home. I don’t think he tells her anything. He leaves for work in the morning and goes home to sleep (in his own room). Maybe you can’t understand how he can not be having sex with a woman he lives with, let me explain it this way:

      I have been divorced for a number of years. Before the actual divorce, the love ended. I thought long and hard about leaving and how it would affect my kids, who were very young at the time. I decided to leave. Before we separated, we had separate rooms and separate lives. He didn’t come to me for sex and I didn’t go to him. Today, if for some reason, I would have to move in with my ex, I can assure you that there will be no intimacy at all. We get along because we had to for the kids when they were growing up. To this day we can talk. I can’t tell you how many family members have said that my ex and I will get back together because neither of us has remarried. Again, it comes from not understanding. This is why I know that it’s possible to not jump into bed with someone simply because you live under the same roof.

      I trust that my guy is no longer lying to me. If I find that my trust was misplaced, then he will no longer be in my life. It won’t be easy, but once I lose trust in someone, there is nothing left.

      • OW if someone lied to me about being married and then lied to his wife and kid about me, I would not trust him.

        Is he sleeping with his wife? Well, I do not think anyone can trust anything he says. I think either thing is possible, but I also think you are the person he is most likely to lie to about this.

        About the complaints, we can only go by what you write. I think from that it really does sound like sex is a big part of why he got involved with you. Perhaps it turned into something else or perhaps the relationship is how he gets the sex or perhaps it is both.

        I am very sorry to hear how much he does for you. It sounds like really neglects his family. (Unless he is not really at work.)

        • Black Iris…

          I am also not approving your unsolicited advice to “Happy OW”. Again, I will let her know of your comment and only if she tells me she wants to read it, will I approve it.

        • What you don’t understand, Black Iris, is that what he does for me around my house, we do TOGETHER. He’s not doing it all. His family is not neglected.

          Unless he’s not really at work?!?! ROFL!! Are you serious?!?!? Yeah…that’s it….he’s independently wealthy and only TELLS me he’s going to work.

          ::::Rolling eyes:::::

  17. I want to say thank you. This is my life as of this year. My MM and I met when he was in the process of a divorce. He’s been married to “Her” for a very long time. There is a lot of history. He loves her for that reason. I respect that.
    He and I met and it was an answer to my prayer’s and dreams. He is without a doubt my soul mate.. Please ladies keep in mind that soul mates do not always end up married or even together for many reasons. She found out about me, I made sure of that. Longer story. She will not sign the papers now. Saying that if she can’t have him, neither can I.
    We tried staying apart, which should be easy for we live in different states. Yes, he is a truck driver. Which is what makes our spending time together, easier. He is my very best friend and the Love is so real and beautiful between us. What has happen between us was not planned by either of us. It just is. I have never been the kind of woman who’d accept being the OW. I have learned that in life we sometimes do things we think we never will or can.
    I am accepting being the OW. This is still a very big learning experience for me. I know I will find out more about myself with this.
    I have my own life with my children which is first a foremost for me. They all love him as he does them. Remember, this is not what the plan was to start with. Weather he ends up divorcing her or not is not even my concern or thoughts as of now.
    I am deep in love with this man, I accept him for who he is and he does me. I was married almost 18 yrs, and not once did I feel this kind of love. I wont let it go just because someone’s say’s to me how wrong I am. Therefore it’s no one’s business. I cannot even tell my bff about this. I felt so alone, until I found you this morning.
    I am sure I am talking in circles here lol. Just a lot on my mind and a lot of joy and love in my heart and soul.
    And for anyone who wants to get on here and condemn me or anyone of us for Loving MM. They really are the one’s who needs to focus on themselves and there own. I do not judge anyone, and it’s not right for another to do me that way. God say’s this is wrong. It’s his place to judge. Blessings.

    • CindyLouWhoo (LOL!!!! Love the name!)….

      Thanks for writing!

      Gotta love the “I don’t want him/you can’t have him” mindset! But, even if she doesn’t sign, a divorce can still be put through by a Judge. As long as there’s proof of service, things will move along, but, maybe will take a bit more time.

      It’s our acceptance that many people don’t understand. They tell us that we’re “settling” or being “delusional”. This isn’t true. We realize that it is what it is for whatever reason and things will work out the way they are supposed to. Whether that means we end up with our MM or not, things will work out.

      I can understand feeling that you can’t talk to your BFF about this because I have lost 2 friends over my relationship: one had a husband who cheated on her, even though she was the perfect Stepford Wife (or maybe it was BECAUSE she was the perfect Stepford Wife. I guess “yes, dear” could get very boring all the time.). The other was a mutual friend of ours who at first didn’t judge, but was convinced by friend #1 that I was a whore. The friends I have now don’t all approve of my relationship, but they accept me for who I am and they accept him as the man I’m with. They know me as a person and they don’t judge.

      As for your last sentence…amen to that! I wish more people would realize that it’s not up to US to say who is “right” and who is “wrong” in anything.

      I wish you the best!

  18. Dear OW,

    A few weeks ago I vowed to stay away from this blog because of the vitriolic nature of the back and forth posts triggered by those who believe they understand each of our situations. The judgmental attitudes were anathema to my understanding of the purpose of this blog, which was to provide a place for those of us who are involved with married men to share our experiences and to offer and receive support.

    I keep returning, because, despite the criticisms and accusations and assumptions of those who think we are somehow settling, or involved in these relationships just for the sex, or only think we are happy, it is nice to find a place where I can share with others in somewhat similar circumstances.

    I’ve read, with delight, the recent postings by a few other women involved with married men, who are so happy to have found this forum. I remember that feeling well. Knowing that there are others who are successfully and happily navigating this alternative form of relationship is comforting at times, especially when others in our lives may be as critical and judgmental as some of those who have posted recently. Let me be perfectly clear – just to avoid someone mischaracterizing what I am saying. My delight is not that others are involved with married men. My delight is that others who are involved with married men have found this blog and are willing to share despite the inevitable criticism.

    One of the things I have contemplated as I read the exchanges with those who are critical, is that those of us who are in long-term relationships with married men have learned that love does not necessarily mean marriage, that love does not require constant togetherness, and that love can happen in situations where it presents complications.

    I spent much of my life in a marriage where the love was non-existent from almost the beginning. For 28 years I stayed in that relationship because I believed marriage was a lifetime commitment. I successfully raised my children, with the help of my now-ex-husband, who is a wonderful father. We provided a loving and stable home for them and they are both successful adults as a result. They are also both well aware that my relationship with him was not based on love, not because I told them, but because, as they grew into young adults they could see this dynamic was missing. They acknowledge that they had not really seen me happy and alive and true to myself until they saw me in my current relationship with my MM.

    Because I chose to stay in a relationship (and yes, though it was not based on love, it was a relationship) that was not a loving marriage, I understand exactly why my MM chooses to stay in his marriage. I also understand that there are aspects of his relationship with his wife that are good, and that I will never be able to give him. They share a family – now grown and married. They share grandchildren. They share memories of more than 35 years together. Can I replace these? Never. They will always have that connection, and I would never want to destroy that. It makes him the person he is – the person I love so dearly.

    What I can give him is the part that’s missing – the love — love of him, for who he is, for who he has grown into over the last 35+ years, as he is. He puts up no walls, no façades, and no images based on expectations with me. He can be true to who is, who he has become, because there is no history with its expectations and assumptions to which he must conform. Had we met 35+ years ago we both would have been very different people, and may not have liked each other, much less loved each other. He can be himself with me. And I have that same freedom with him. And, we love each other based on that honest, open sharing of who we really are under all of the expectations and judgments that come from existing as long as we both have (we are both in our late 50s). To be able to be honest with myself and with him about who I really am, without worrying about whether it is what he wants, or what I am supposed to be, is liberating. To be loved by him, while being that open, is exquisite.

    Though we met because we were both looking to satisfy a sexual need, our relationship developed based on everything but that. Heck — we are close to 60 — sex is not a priority. If it was, I can assure you, I would have moved on long ago. Do we enjoy each other that way — sure — but it’s the intimacy, the openness, the lack of expectations, the love – that is much more important than the physical connection.

    For those who suggest that I will never have what I want, or what they think I want, I can only say this: You have no idea of what I want. I have no desire to be married again. I have no desire to give up my life for another — I want to share it with someone. And I have that. I share my life with my MM – exactly as I want to. We do not hide our relationship. We respect his relationship with his wife enough to avoid flaunting it where it will cause her unnecessary pain, but aside from that, we are a typical loving couple. Some of our friends know he is married, some do not, but only because it has not come up. So — for those who have just discovered this space and are looking for evidence that this lifestyle can work, despite the fact that it is an alternative that many others condemn, I offer my story as evidence that it can, in some circumstances. Would I encourage people to do this from the beginning — no — but if you do find yourself here because love is not a choice, it’s a fine place to be . . .

    • Very well-put, Happy OW!

      As you can see, you came back to Black Iris….different name, but same MO as The First Mrs and Mrs Wife. It amazes me how someone who has never been in this position can say how ALL MM will lie and cheat on their other women and how sex is the main reason why they are with us. You told everyone that these generalizations are not always true. Your story, like mine, can show that while we don’t encourage dating a MM, under the “right” circumstances, it can work very successfully.

      Glad to have you back! Just ignore the ignorance and you’ll be fine! :-D

      Thank you so much!

    • HOW – I can actually believe that you are happy with your arrangement and do not want more.

      What I think is wrong is that his wife has not agreed to this. Doing it is wrong and it is not okay to make yourself happy by making someone else unhappy.

      • I can believe other women dont want more. They are addicted to the drama. Studies show that an unstable unhealthy relationship is as addictive as crack cocaine. This doesn’t make cheating right. I’m absolutely disguited by other women justifying their actions by using flimsy reasoning.

        • Hello, Some….

          Actually, unless you know first hand anything about a relationship, you can’t judge it to be either “healthy” or “unhealthy”. I’m not “addicted” to my guy, we love each other and there is no “drama” involved. Maybe that’s hard for you to understand, but, unless you are in this situation, you never will understand.

        • Dear Some . . .

          My relationship with my MM is more stable and healthy than most long-term marriages. I don’t want more because I actually cannot imagine there is anything more either of us could give or get. We are open and honest with each other, we respect each other, we are independent people who enjoy our lives apart from each other as well as our lives together. There is no drama involved at all.

          I recognize that some have suggested that trusting a man who hides a relationship from his wife means that he cannot be trusted. But, trust is something that is earned, and it can be present in some relationships and not in others, depending on all sorts of factors. It is not automatically granted or withheld. Each interaction, each conversation, each action or non-action demonstrates whether a person is trustworthy or not. My MM has proven to me, over and over again, that I can trust him, and I believe he would say the same of me. I know more about him and how he feels and why he does so than any other person alive. And he knows the same about me. As a result, there is no drama – there is communication, caring, compromise – and everything that is important to a mature, loving relationship.

          I am not sure any of us are saying that cheating is right; nor are we saying it’s wrong. It is a situation some of us face, and each of us who are in these relationships has chosen to accept that situation for what it is. I also don’t feel the need to justify my actions to anyone. Those who can’t understand how a couple can fall in love even though one or the other, or both are married to another, will criticize and judge, because that way they can reassure themselves that they won’t somehow find themselves in this very situation. But, just as I don’t feel the need to ask same-sex couples to justify why they fell in love, I feel no need to justify why I did. In fact, I am not sure any of us actually could justify why they fell in love with another person.

          So, the fact that you are disgusted with people who use flimsy reasoning to justify their actions is rather amusing. The logic you are demonstrating here is based on a false premise – that these relationships are unstable or unhealthy. A false premise is generally one that is a myth or misconception that is usually held out of ignorance. And, an argument based on a fallacy is flimsy reasoning at its best.

          I don’t believe any of us will ever convince any of the critics here that they are wrong. Those assumptions and beliefs that form the premises of their arguments are too strongly held and too connected to faith and religion and other intangible things to be critically evaluated by those who hold them. To do so would turn their world upside down. And, personally, I don’t want to disrupt anyone’s naive impression of the world. But, I would suggest that before you start criticizing others you at least attempt to understand things from their point of view, rather than only relying on the myopic point of view that seems common to most of the critics here.

    • Happy OW…

      Black Iris has a comment for you. You have seen her previous comments, I’m sure. I told her to stop giving unsolicited advice to my readers and that I would not approve those comments if she continues. I am now giving you the choice of whether or not you want to see what she has to say. I will only approve the “advice” if you agree to that.

      Thanks!

  19. Dear OW,

    Thanks for the heads-up. I do appreciate the fact that you are willing to hold off on Black Iris’ response, but, I came back to this site knowing it will continue to draw criticism. I teach law, and could never live with myself and what I teach my students if I thought that my frustration with someone’s attitude caused them to avoid speaking, or being allowed to post here. Please feel free to post the response. I have seen where it is coming from and will give it the consideration it deserves (or doesn’t).

  20. Hi Ow,

    Please help & advise on an urgent basis.

    I have been dating my m guy for 11months now. Over a period of time, he told me that his wife has been cold towards him and busy with kids.

    I asked him once that before kids they would have been near perfect couple and he says that it’s a almost yes. I am by nature a very insecure person and getting bouts of jealousy pangs despite his every showering attention.

    I try to gauge if he loves her… He neither denies nor admits. This is causing me great frustration because not denying is as good as agreeing sometimes.

    I am at cross roads and although I know he loves me, I am not able to deal with insecurity and jealousy.

    Should I call quits? Please tell me what would you do in my situation.

    Anxiously awaiting your reply

    Thanks

  21. Hi

    In continuation to the above … He says he has not been sexually active since the last 8 months… Which btw is the period of time his wife has been pregnant. He says she wanted the kid and not him. I don’t know what to believe.

    As of all these months he has been only with me and he says he wants to continue that way provided I don’t start having insecurities and jealousy pangs.

    Every time he reaffirms by saying that she is not interested in him but he never says the other way round- that he is not interested in her.

    I am just dying if frustration and insecurity.

    Please advise

    • Hi, Sam…

      After reading both your comments, the only thing I can say is “RUN!!!”

      You have been with this man for 11 months. During that time, he has told you that she has been cold towards him and busy with the kids, yet she wasn’t “cold” enough NOT to have sex with him 8 months ago, when she got pregnant. I understand that “it only takes one time”, but they had to have been planning a baby or birth control would have been used. Of course, I’m just speculating here, but it makes sense. To me, it looks like he’s not entirely honest with you when he says that his wife wants kids, but not him. I don’t know of any woman who would continue to have babies with a man she didn’t love or want.

      Now, what position do you think you will play in his life after this new baby is born? I’m sure his wife isn’t planning on raising this child and the other children on her own. Your MM will more likely than not have an active role in the baby’s life. He should also be having an active role in his OTHER kids’ lives. If he is the type who can turn his back on his children, how quickly will he be able to turn his back on you? If he does play an active part in his kids’ lives, how much time do you think he will have for you after this baby is born?

      Taking care of kids is tiring! On top of that, this man’s wife is pregnant (8 months!), which is ALSO tiring (not to mention uncomfortable). What happens when she has the baby and hormones wane? It’s common during pregnancy to not want sex. Reading your comments, I really don’t think your MM is giving his marriage a fair chance. Not only that, but he isn’t telling you that he doesn’t love his wife (even though he doesn’t say he does, either) and he knows that makes you insecure. He also tells you that his wife isn’t interested in him, but not that HE isn’t interested in her. He then tells you that he wants to continue on with you as long as YOU don’t start having pangs of insecurity and jealousy. How can he give you this “ultimatum”? Of course you’re going to be insecure and jealous knowing that he has a pregnant wife at home (who, BTW, he impregnated while seeing you).

      You admit that you are, by nature, insecure and jealous. If this is the case, I don’t see your relationship with this MM going anywhere. How are you going to handle it if there is another pregnancy? How will you feel if you one day run into your MM and his family at the mall, or the park, or in a restaurant?

      From everything you have written, even though I don’t know you, your MM or his wife, I think that he loves his wife and is just frustrated over the normal changes that occur in every marriage when there are kids involved. As I said before, I really don’t think he has done all he can to save his marriage. He and his wife are intimate, just not with the frequency that he would like. Again, that issue is faced with every couple who has kids. He has told you that he and his wife were just about the “perfect couple” before kids. Without kids, it’s easy to be the “perfect couple”. Without kids, there are no restrictions on sex or going out to have fun. With kids, bye-bye spontaneous sex and intimate dinners at fancy restaurants! Bye-bye R-rated movies and hello “Finding Nemo”! He needs to talk to his wife and tell her what he needs from her and they need to work out some kind of compromise. If he’s not willing to give his marriage a fair chance before moving on to another woman, how fair of a chance will he give you if you aren’t in the mood one day?

      I know it’s hard to let go when you love someone, but I really think that if you stay with this man, you will be in for a load more of hurt than you are feeling now. If you set yourself free, you will, in time, be able to find a single guy who can give you all the love and reassurances you need.

      Please, just think about the things I’ve said. Remember that I don’t know you, but I can only go by what you say. It doesn’t sound like this man is willing to give up on his marriage.

      I wish you the best whatever you decide to do with this relationship.

  22. Hi Ow,

    Big thanks. I was so hassled yesterday that I skipped some details when I wrote you the above two emails. There is a bit of background to this.
    A. He is my ex colleague and we have good friends for 3 years although we never discussed each others family.

    B. 11 months ago when he and I decided to started seeing each other… He had told me that he and his wife are planning their second kid. Although he is not in favour since there were multiple complication faced by the first kid (not the mother).

    C. Though in relationship with this guy, the sex part was just beginning between us and I was encouraging him to have the baby.

    D. So yes, there was one month when he did have sex with his wife and with me.

    He says that he has to ask for sex with her whenever they were doing it in the past (prior to our relationship) since she was not interested. So intimacy is zero.

    I confronted him last night about he loving her and waiting for her to someday turning to him. He says that he loves me and has no feelings for her except for the fact that they live under one roof and are raising kids together.

    He is a very reponsible fatherland extremely active with his first kid’s upbringing.

    Apart from this, he has been very expressive about his feelings to me and showers me with gifts and attention and his maximum time every day. We meet atleast twice a week and sex is once or twice a month. We share an amazing friendship and have equally good time being intimate.

    I hope the background helps you get a better insight. Please advise if I should still call quits.

    Thanks and regards,

  23. Hi Ow,

    Another thing he said was that whether he and I are together or not… His relation with his wife will not change since its beyond that stage.

    There are times when he tells me to become a marriage counsellor because I try encouraging him to revive the flame with his wife.

    He has told me in the past that he has tried telling her about these issues in many ways but things haven’t changed and he believes that they will remain like this forever irrespective of whether I remain in his life or choose to leave.

  24. Hi Ow,

    Request you to view my above emails and advise urgently.

    You think I am one stupid girl but since this is my first affair… I am feeling completely lost and anxious.

    I have been giving him a bit of cold shoulder and just sticking to formal conversation.

    Please share your views so I can end my agonising fate by either staying or doing a proper break-up.

    • Hi, Sam….

      You are in no way “stupid”. After all, if you are stupid, then I guess all of us OW are stupid for getting into this situation. That’s not the case….crazy sometimes, maybe, but not stupid. ;-)

      What you do is entirely up to you. One of the issues here is that you are insecure and jealous. I don’t see how he can expect you NOT to be jealous or insecure considering that his wife is 8 months pregnant and you have been with him for 11 months. Insecurity and jealousy would be natural under these circumstances (I would think). If you decide to continue seeing your guy, you need to talk to him to tell him how you are feeling and why. I don’t see how he can expect you to NOT be insecure under the circumstances. If he is an involved father, then you must realize that he will be spending more and more time with his wife in the coming year (or more). Many men even go to every visit to the pediatrician. And what happens if they decide on another baby? You say that there were problems with the first one, so he wasn’t too keen on the idea of a second, but his wife won out. She could win out again in a year or so.

      If I were in this situation, knowing how I am, I know I would not continue. I wouldn’t be able to handle the fact that my guy and his wife would continue with plans to have a second baby even after he started seeing me. But, that’s just me. Are you able to accept his home situation?

      I can see that you don’t want to end your relationship with this man, so you can play it by ear and see how it goes once the baby is born. I just don’t want to see you get more hurt than you already are. It’s easier to break up after 11 months than it would be after 11 years.

      Whatever you decide, I wish you all the luck in the world.

  25. Thanks again Ow,

    Since the insecurities n jealousies are bothering me … I had confronted him online instead of waiting to meet in person… He says he has been honest with me about his life his feelings and everything.

    It’s only lately I realised that he has been mentioning about ‘she not looking at him’ ‘she not caring’ ‘she not being interested’… He tried giving answers and though he says he loves me… It doesn’t add for me.

    So today we spoke (again small talk .. Repeated things…) everything but my issue which we fought online. Out of frustrating one hour, we disconnected the phone in a civilise way. But I couldn’t hold back so messaged him saying that if he is open to discussing n sorting this issue only then we should talk…

    He replied saying that he will talk but for him the online conversation topic is over n he is not interested in repeating stuff..

    I get a feeling that he doesn’t care after all..or am I being too nagging :(

    How can anyone love two people at the same time… I am sure I was being fooled all this while

    I am hoping i find all the courage to quit this relationship because my insecurities are way too many for me to handle it or feel remotely happy.

    • Hi, Sam….

      I’m glad you see him for what he is. It really doesn’t make sense that any couple who have no interest in each other would plan a second child. You deserve to be happy and this man won’t even take the time to reassure you.

      You say…..

      I get a feeling that he doesn’t care after all..or am I being too nagging :(

      I say…..

      No…you are NOT being too nagging. You are having insecurities and jealousy issues that are normal. It’s not an issue for him, so he doesn’t want to discuss it further. Your feelings matter. He just doesn’t see this.

      Be strong. I won’t say it’s not going to hurt; it WILL hurt. Take a little time to grieve what was, then move on so you can find the someone who is right for you.

  26. Wow…wow…wow.
    Sam run for the hills. Find your happiness with a man thats yours alone. You are in for heartache and pain.
    All I have to say.

  27. Hi Ow, Sadworldwelivein,

    I tried breaking off but couldn’t. Just too emotional about the whole thing. Yday we discussed my doubts and insecurities over phone and he clarified lot of things such as his feelings for me, his relationship with his wife, his take on why has chosen this relationship…

    He says he is clear in his mind and heart about me but I don’t seem to be as clear about our relationship. This is true because almost every month or two, I try finding reasons to quit…

    It’s not that I don’t love him but I clearly don’t know how to take relationship forward. In the sense, is there a future for us? I want him completely for myself… I know that he is mine and yet his M status drives me to being insecure and jealous. At the same time I don’t want ruin his life with family… Kids.

    I have asked him to give me some time to evaluate my thoughts about my insecurities, my expectation and what all is bothering me… He agreed and said that if I want I should take one week or even a month to sort my feelings and whether I want him in my life or not. And that I should discuss my evaluation with him and he will help my sort out my insecurities and put them away.

    I told him that although in the initial stages of our relationship I had encouraged him to have a baby but I can no longer accept the intimacy between him and his wife. I need loyalty from this relationship and if that’s not there then I am backing off. He says that I need to trust him about the fact that he is no sleeping with his wife.

    I am at crossroads and this time I have sort everything in detail.

    Your advise is most welcome.

    • Hi, Sam…

      I truly don’t believe that this is the relationship for you. I don’t know you, but you have said quite a few times that you are jealous and insecure by nature. The OW can be neither. We need to trust what our men are telling us and that is very difficult to do in a best-case situation. Your situation is not even close to “best-case” since while you were seeing your MM, he and his wife came to the decision to have a baby. This means that he probably was having sex with his wife from the time you started seeing him to the time she got pregnant. After all, many times a woman doesn’t get pregnant the first try.

      I have said before that I don’t believe any woman would have a baby with a man she no longer wants. What self-respecting man will agree to father a child with his wife knowing he’s being thought of as a sperm donor? If she just wanted babies, she would have dumped the husband and looked into a sperm bank. You said that your MM is a very involved dad to his first child, so how much time do you think he will have once this new baby is born? There is a lot of work involved with a newborn and his wife will want him around most of the time. HE will want to be around his family most of the time because that’s what involved fathers do…they help out. In your first letter, you stated that his wife made excuses for not having sex, but, as I pointed out, things change once a child is born and pregnancy is VERY tiring! I didn’t think then, and I don’t think now, that he was giving his wife a fair chance.

      Yes, it’s very difficult to give up someone you feel strongly about, but look at the big picture. What happens when his wife wants yet another child? With insecurities and jealousy, will you be able to keep your sanity knowing that your MM is once again having sex with his wife when he’s not with you? Something inside you is telling you to run. You say that you’re not sure about this relationship. That speaks volumes.

      You can’t expect loyalty from a man who has gotten his wife pregnant while seeing you and who tells you that “she just wants babies”. She will undoubtedly want more, so where does loyalty to you come in? Personally, I don’t see a future for you and this MM. His loyalty is with his wife and children right now. He can’t give you any more than he is already giving you. You are the only one who can decide if that is enough for you, but from all you’ve said, I doubt it is enough. You want him to yourself, but that won’t happen…at least not in the near future. Right now, he needs to give his family a chance right now.

  28. Hi Ow,

    I am not sure if I have offended you in any manner (if i have then please forgive me) or if you are busy. But I am still in a mess.

    I haven’t been able to break up and have instead pursuaded him to discuss like he had agreed to.

    Although he doesn’t seem open to discussion. My intention is find out if he still remotely loves his wife… Because that’s one solid reason for me to back out… Although will I find the strength to backout – still remains a question

    Last full week we ended up fighting n arguing over email chats … He stating his love but was shut to discussion and me trying to pursue him for discussion one on one.

    He has agreed to meet and discuss finally. My issue is that there are days when I feel guilt about the relation and there are days when I simply can’t think beyond him… I don’t want to turn mad

    Please please advice

    Regards

    • Hi, Sam!

      I’ve just been really, really busy so it’s taking some time to catch up here. I’m not easily offended. :-D

  29. Hi Ow,

    I agree when you say that I will get hurt. There is a part of me which tells me to back out while there are still few memories which have been built together.

    Here is what makes me stick around to take my few changes with love because I seriously doubt if I will feel like this with anyone and if anyone will have the patience to love me despite my weirdness..

    We share an amazing friendship and connect emotionally also very well. Physical aspect is equally awesome.

    Yes I have tried breaking up in the past because I am becoming more and more emotionally attached to him.

    This is my first relationship and I want it feel like a normal one but it isn’t and so I am jealous insecure and miserable.

    However the minute I am with him, I forget all this. He is sweet, caring and has been honest to my bombarding questions which I asked him in person so that I could gauge his body language.

    He was open n has explained things in a detailed way. How he didn’t have feelings for his wife and still got married (we are Asians) and in our society even today people get married when they reach an ‘appropriate ‘ age irrespective of that fact whether they are in love or not.

    Another thing I asked him was to marry me and he declined… Although I don’t want marriage either but I don’t know why I asked him… On hindsight I think it was my insecurity…yet his silence still hurts me somewhere :(

    once again I suggested break off but after a while I started thinking about all the days and he has been sweet to me every single day. He has been in touch on every single and he has been everything I would a guy to be and whereas I have been moody and negative and lecturing and insecure and so many things…

    He said one thing over and over again… That is he loves and wants me to be happy and will support me in all my decisions … Whether its being together or apart… I don’t want to give up just as yet…

    Do you think I am going mad and should I go for some counselling.

    P.s
    I hate to say this but I have to tell you that I come from broken home and have never seen happy marriages and don’t believe in them and hence don’t want to get married…

    He is so far the only sweetest thing that has happened in my life and I am just being greedy and selfish.

    Yes I care and I know that i will never hurt him and everything that’s close to his heart.

    I am just a bitter cynical person who had stopped believing in love long time ago… And I seem to have found a bowl of honey and I am lost :( :(

    • Sam…

      Since this man is your first love, I can understand how badly the thought of losing him hurts you. But, I believe that with your insecurities and jealousy that goes back to your youth, I can’t see how you can ever feel safe and secure in this relationship. Things may get better for a while, but those insecurities will come right back at the first sign of “something wrong”.

      There are such things as happy marriages, but you need to give relationships time to develop, which you cannot do as long as you are bound to this man.

      Perhaps it would help if you did go for some counseling. A good therapist could help you to understand why you feel as you do and help you come to a solution.

      I wish you all the best! You deserve to find that happily ever after. Really…it does exist!

  30. Hi Ow,

    Also about his pregnant wife part… I would like to clarify that he had mentioned to me about they planning a baby… This was when he and I were not exactly in a relationship… And we continued discussing that topic when we became a couple … He didn’t want another child and I was the one who somehow convinced him to not change his plan.

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